Poll: Covid Vaccine Mandate in Tech
Do you know someone who claims they will quit their tech job over the vaccine mandates?
So can we at least get to "I know someone" ?
I don't need the money so quitting's not a big deal for me, but I do feel sorry for those not in a position to take a principled stand for personal choice and autonomy over their own bodies.
I'll consider coming back to work when/if something close to the old normal returns some day.
Mandate or not, if I'm going into an office, I don't want to work with people who are willing to expose me and my family to unnecessary risk.
It just means that you probably won't need to go to the hospital when you catch it.
A: I don't want to go anywhere that someone might not be vaccinated against Covid-09
B: why dont you just get the vaccine?
A: well it's not a "vaccine" vaccine, you can still get it and spread it if you get vaccinated. So everybody should get vaccinated, and shouldn't be allowed near me if they're not.
B: ?
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I know and understand the counterpoints to this, I'm just pointing out how it might sound to someone whose capacity for reason hasn't been short-circuited yet
Given that even Fox News has articles about making sure the exemptions aren't abused [1] (instead of claiming they aren't exemptions), he should be fine at his employer.
It's not clear what the rules are for travel and so on, but this thread is about mandates for employment.
[1] https://www.foxnews.com/health/surgeon-general-monitor-vacci...
As Lord Farqaad said "Some of you may die, but it is a risk I'm willing to take?". Your freedoms stops where the rights (and lives) of others starts.
It is not acceptable for anyone to force a medical procedure upon you. To that, some would retort "then surely everybody else should have the option to exclude you?". No, this is coercion.
I don't know how this is even an argument. There is disturbing trend upwards in infringement on people's rights. It feels like almost daily we have a thread on HN about another Big Tech company heinously infringing on privacy. Now some are saying we need to bribe people with keeping their jobs to do something they might not be willing to do? Horrifying.
My last two Visas had multiple vaccine requirements. Prove I'm vaccinated, get vaccinated, or lose my job.
This isn't anything new for a lot of people.
If you require a visa, you are by definition a guest in another country. It isn't the hosts' responsibility to take care of you if you fall ill. You have the choice to stay or leave.
Citizens on the other hand don't really have any options. Being unemployed isn't an option. Nor is becoming a citizen of another country for most.
> Vaccines offered through the national immunisation programme in the UK are not mandatory.
Which is probably why measles is not/no longer eradicated in the UK:
> In August 2019, the WHO’s European Regional Verification Commission for Measles and Rubella Elimination (RVC) determined the UK had lost its measles elimination status.
But still useful to get a non-US perspective. (It's easy to forget how policies differ, worldwide)
[1] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...
I would quit if this was mandated on me. My country already has vaccine 'passports' for certain activities, and while I am fully vaccinated and support vaccines in general, I fully oppose vaccine mandates/passports and refuse to do any activity that requires it. I guess if in the future to go to the supermarket to buy food I might show my passport as the alternative is to starve, I am 100% against this and will as much as I can, remove myself from civilisation if this the path we move towards to.
(ps: also no FB, IG, twitter, bla bla blah before someone says X or Y are tracking me already)
Does not being American affect your ability to read? I'm not Asian but I understand why many cultures have long ago adopted the widespread use of masks to prevent spreading illness.
Of course it doesn't further the discussion when you refuse to acknowledge it in the first place. I'll just copy and paste what I wrote again because you ignored it the first time.
>Does not being American affect your ability to read? I'm not Asian but I understand why many cultures have long ago adopted the widespread use of masks to prevent spreading illness.
Or to go to a restaurant and prove you have a flu vaccine?
Or tuberculosis exam as it also spreads via the air from an infected person?
What about if you haven't been able to get the vaccine (like my girlfriend which she is stuck in a fucking bureaucratic limbo due to most public services not working due to.. well guess what, COVID lockdowns) and not being able to be part of everyday life?
And I really dislike the 'well we have mandatory things already, so why not this also?' way of thinking. If now to enter a restaurant we required a rectal exam, it should be ok right? you already have a driving license so we should be able to ask anything else based on that alone
You've literally employed that thinking in your rebuttal.
"We don't have to do X, Y, Z. So why this also?"
Whether you're vaccinated matters to you.
Whether everyone is vaccinated matters to everyone.
That's an absurd comparison considering HIV doesn't spread by simply being in a room with someone who is infected. Also, I'm guessing that you're unaware that in many countries there are laws against knowingly exposing someone to HIV without disclosing it to them. https://www.aidsmap.com/about-hiv/hiv-criminalisation-laws-a...
from CDC:
CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2018–2019 season included an estimated 35.5 million people getting sick with influenza, 16.5 million people going to a health care provider for their illness, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths from influenza (Table 1)
Now, I am not saying that covid is just the flu, but 34k deaths in 2018 from the flu. Does this number also justify having flu shot mandates/passports? Or is it only if it is 340k deaths? 3.4 million deaths? 3k deaths is enough? I heard at a time some people saying 'if it saves only one life, it is worth it' so I wonder how much they will also do for all these other deaths.
That's disingenuous and you know it. There wasn't a global effort to contain recent flu strains like there has been with covid. In 2018 working from home was not the norm. People weren't wearing masks and isolating from others. Concerts, movies, restaurants, fairs, etc... weren't shut down. The global economy wasn't halted. Even with all of that being enforced due to covid there were still 375k deaths in the US in 2020, which is 11x greater than the 34k flu deaths in 2018.
If you want to see what happens when you let covid run its course without interference, especially in an area with a low population density, look no further than Sweden. Their (mostly) laissez faire approach resulted in a death rate that was up to 10x greater than neighboring countries. https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden-covid-no-lockdown-str...
- Have mandates been effective in the past? Yes. We eliminated polio and smallpox, in part due to mandates in the US. - Is the activity required for a reasonable person to be able to live? If so, I'm generally against a mandate. E.g. I wouldn't support mandates for going grocery shopping. I'm ok with them for bars. - Can I take reasonable precautions as an individual to ensure I don't get infected without a vaccine? For covid, not really. I'm reliant on everyone else either not having it, out properly wearing a mask. For your HIV example, I can easily choose to not have unprotected sex with someone until we are both tested, or I can roll the dice. The decision and consequences are controllable by me as an individual. With covid, I can do everything right and still get sick buying groceries because someone else acted irresponsibly. - What is the risk of the virus vs. effectiveness of the vaccine? The flu is significantly less infectious and less lethal. The flu vaccine is far less effective than the covid vaccine. Those three facts make a flu vaccine mandate less pressing and less effective. When our hospitals can be easily overrun, then it's pressing. There were days in Oregon where you couldn't get an ICU bed if you got into a bad accident because of the number of COVID-19 patients. That's terrifying and entirely preventable
There are also many countries where kids aren't allowed into schools without a standard set of vaccinations - because the alternative is literally horrific.
When did so many people become narcissists who just can't even with the very real truth that the public good is vitally important and absolute freedom cannot exist without terrible consequences.
If this attitude had been common when polio vaccination became available there would be literally millions of crippled kids clanking around the country in leg calipers or suffocating slowly in iron lungs.
There is no reason whatsoever to not get vaccinated except under very very very limited circumstances and those folks should be working from home.
Said in the forum where half of it boycotts Google because they don't like something or other it's done.
If you think Google has done something boycott-worthy, oh boy will you be interested in drug manufacturers.
† Although I think under those limited circumstances, the affected should be able to make their own choices about what is important to them in life, since they are the ones most at risk anyway.
Do those limited circumstances include:
1) individuals with immunity acquired through previous infection?
2) the need to prioritize other individuals who have not been vaccinated once already?
3) vaccine resistance - i.e. in populations with dominant variants that to continue to evolve substantial resistance to current formulations?
4) vulnerable sub-populations (ie children & pregnant women) that have not yet participated in any long-term or large-scale clinical trials?
What does this statement have to do with mandating that one provides personal medical information as a condition of participation in society?
Please don't pretend that agreeing with vaccination is the same as agreeing with invasion of privacy and government and employer overreach