Why most gas stations don’t make money from selling gas
thehustle.co
thehustle.co
This guy 100% misses the boat and is clueless on how the real world works. Such naivete it's painful to read.....
The reason gas stations run aggressively on cash is because they're running two different sets of books a majority of the time.
Same for laundromats, motels, etc...
Now guess which group of people runs these businesses?
I used to ask my father why we didn't go get a "Brown" loan from a group of Indians and then go open a small business.
My father replied "We don't break the law."
He sat me at a Denny's across from a gas station, he told me to watch the people going into the store and count the items they walked out with. He explained to me that there are Indians who don't pay the tax man and pocket the cash and asked me to never be one of those.
To this day, if I want to get a low or zero interest crowdsourced loan from a squad of Indians to go open a gas station or small convenience store, I should have no trouble doing so. I've never bothered.
Years later, after sitting down with my father, I got access to cell phone movement data overlaid on gas stations. It was very revealing when combined with CC transaction data that was also purchased.
2 different sets of books and the author of this doesn't even bother mentioning it.
I am Indian too, with a father that owned and ran a gas station. (My dad's shop was among the top gas-volume stations in America during his time, I forget exactly how much, but he had a few trophies from the company for it).
They preferred cash during his time because the 2-3% charge was a significant dent in margins. When credit cards started becoming popular, dealers still did not want to take it. So the company encouraged dealers to accept it by promising to refund the charges for a time.
I don't dispute that cheating like what you described happens. I dispute the implication that cheating the IRS is why most businesses prefer cash instead of credit.
What’s your basis for this?
Logically, it seems to fit that the reason cash is preferred is for the illegal aspect of tax dodging/money laundering. Because the numbers don’t add up otherwise.
It’s great that your family is honorable and did the right thing, but it’s just an anecdote, like OP’s. But it doesn’t explain why so many businesses would be able to stay in business doing so.
What's the basis for the converse?
What numbers don't add up?
There doesn’t seem a reasonable reason to be cash only since, even though credit has a 3% hit or whatever, people spend more with credit.
There’s a need for money laundering and that is much easier with cash only businesses.
I do not know about this. Every single gas station that is cash-only, they also allow debit cards which you cannot be used for tax evasion. The main reason is station owner doesn't want to pay processing fees for credit card transactions since margins are so thin.
But if they have a store they will enable CC, Apple Pay, Android Pay, and all other things. This is where the money is. This is my anecdotal experience (from talking with an owner) and this article confirms that.
Why is this relevant?
>The reason gas stations run aggressively on cash [...]
they do? Most of the gas stations I see are pay at the pump, and inside the convenience store I'd say most people are paying with credit/debit.
ATMs, etc...
60% of the 130K-ish gas stations in the USA are Indian owned, but we only make up <1% of the population. (old metrics)
What counts as "heavy"? 5%? 15? 50%? Based on my observations it doesn't look like it's happening at a significant enough scale for it to meaningfully make a dent on gas station profitability numbers.
>ATMs, etc...
Why would someone use an ATM to pay for stuff? I don't think I ever saw a gas station that didn't accept debit. If anything gas stations offer a free "ATM" in the form of "cash back" transactions.
Owning a gas station is on the ... Truck Driver -- Gas Station -- Motel .. spectrum for blue collar immigrants from the subcontinent.
As far as I’m aware neither is gas station business model knowledge hereditary nor is it taught in Indian school textbooks or part of Indian cultural learning.
I don't try to stereotype, but i've heard that the culture in India encourages getting free stuff or paying as little as possible to get the most stuff.
https://www.sundayguardianlive.com/business/indias-culture-f...
The linked article has nothing to do with the discussion here. You are just projecting something else here.
Yes, gas stations make low margin on gasoline.
Also, gas station owners in the < 15 location category are cheating taxes to get there.
Think of them as Mini-Bezoses. :)
I worked at a service station in the early 90s, the owner was honest but going broke. We made $0.10/gallon on average, the sales of cigarettes, chips, and soda kept that station going. We had service bays but as more cars became proprietary and needed dealer service we had less service business. When the US invaded Iraq it really removed any profit that small station owners made from gas.
That station no longer exists, it was removed and in the space is now a small medical office.
If this random HN guy knows this, you can bet the IRS and a variety of state agencies would also know this and target them very effectively.
The reality is that in a business where gross profit margins are around 2% at best, you don’t need to go to tax evasion to understand why they would choose to encourage a payment method that does not incur a 2.6% + 30c cost on every transaction.
The brand name wanted the station to close the service bays and turn that space into a junk food store. The station owner believed in the service bays but really couldn't pull in the business. Had it become a junk food store it would probably still be there.
I do wish the article would cover some of the nefarious aspects of small business sectors in the USA.
This is why I get annoyed when I hear people say "the 'rich' aren't paying their taxes." In fact it's the "poor" -- or rather the people who purport to be poor -- who aren't paying their taxes. Every dime I earn the Government knows about.
But every time I have to do business with a someone who will only accept cash, I see much evidence of shady bookkeeping.
The idea that the IRS (actually state tax agencies since a lot of gas and sales taxes go to states) don’t know about and aggressively target small businesses is fiction.
In fact, the likes of small gas stations falls squarely in the tax evasion targeting sweet spot because they are large enough to draw enough money from in a tax evasion case, but not large enough that they will use up government resources in never ending lawsuits.
When I did the books margins were 0.075/gal for regular and 0.013/gal (edit: should be 0.13/gal) for premium. I could see those as double for an independent station.
This should not be surprising at all. Consumers are incredibly price sensitive and will drive 19 min to save $0.05/gal (save $0.75 and burn $0.60 of gas in the process). The supply chain for gas captures margins, not the gas stations. I would get calls from corporate for $0.03/gal adjustments several times a day if gas prices were volatile.
It all came down to in store sales where mark ups were 50-100%. Youd be surprised how many people paid $5 for a bottle of mustard they could buy for $2 at Safeway. Cigarettes were the other huge sellers.
On a holiday weekend we’d sell 12,000 gal of gas on a Friday, make $800 on the gas and $30,000 (after COGS) on in store sales.
My grandpa would drive all around town to save a few cents per gallon. It always seemed insanely wasteful to me.
I also question whether big brands have lower margins. People seem to gravitate to the Wawa and RaceTrak and Sheetz and Love's, often due to cleanliness as much as the store, and they usually appear to price their gas a few cents above no-name competitors and still be much busier.
But I also acknowledge that gasoline sales are very location dependent. Where I was the major brands took most of the sales. But again, you’d sometimes find an independent in a prime location who must have been making $500k per year. I did books at a very busy station where the owner made ~$200k in today’s dollars
Major disclaimer that what I observed may not apply to other markets.
I have no doubt that owning a gas station can be hugely profitable. Those independents making 500k made more money because they could get away with charging more for gas, being in a great location. Not because of lower costs. And also because, despite anecdotes, most people are not super price sensitive.
Of course being independent is much harder, but also potentially more profitable.
40 cents on a gallon of gas sounds pretty exceptional- perhaps a geographic specific thing.
To your point in the other thread, you’re right that some of typical operating expenses happen because of the convenience store. It’s possible to run pumps with no store partially unmanned and make money (you see this at some rest stop gas stations on interstates, for example, or some grocery store lots.) However, those are blessed due to unusual location and not attainable for most owners, so they need to run a more complex and attractive operation.
That's CapEx. Plus, somebody built the store, too. How about labor? When was the last time you saw an employee OUTSIDE at a gas station, not inside the convenience store?
I never said the gas station part has no costs, just that the store likely has more, and when a article from "The Hustle" attributes ALL OpEx to the gas, it's the readers being hustled.
Gas stations might not be quite as drastic as that, but still seems like the same principle applies.
Although conversely the convenience stores at fast charge stations probably do a lot better. If you have to wait for 30 minutes anyway might as well go in...
Already have:
https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/newsroom/article/News.ev_...
https://instavolt.co.uk/first-instavolt-ev-rapid-charger-goe...
I realize that is anecdotal since I haven't been to all that many pitstops. But the competition for pitstop restaurant space is pretty clear.
The more common version of the fallacy is, "Pharmaceutical companies produce nothing of value because look, most of their money is spent on marketing, not on discovering miracle cures."
Yes, they spend on a ton of money on marketing to eke out whatever they can from a given discovery ... but that all depends on having a legit discovery to begin with.
Gas stations are situated near population centers, because you tend to run out of gas wherever you're driving, and you drive where you live.
In practice, consumer EVs almost universally charge at home[1] and "never" just "run out" of charge. You're car is always charged, there's little value to topping up at the shopping areas or whatever. Instead, you need DC fast charging where you travel: on the long distance arteries where your car can't otherwise reach.
To be clear: you need gas there too. But rural highway gas stations represent a small fraction of all gas service. Most gas stations won't be able to shift to EV charging and keep their business model.
[1] Though there are growing pains with apartment facilities being slow to install AC charging. Right now an EV works much better in a home with a garage, though that seems likely to sort itself out. Cheap electrical work is cheap, it's just a question of how to get people to pay for it. Some regulation is likely to be needed.
The solution is to get chargers installed wherever you park the car. May require legislation if your landlord is uncooperative.
In the mean time, charging at a public charging station isn’t so bad provided it’s convenient and reliable. If you can combine charging with shopping or dining etc it’s not much different to topping up at a gas station. Probably cheaper too!
I remember many years ago that having one of these outlets was a bullet point for apartment listings, but nowadays it's just expected.
So the market worked in that case.
EV charging stations are going to be more expensive than a basic 20 amp outlet (a quick web search indicates $700 to $2,000, not including installation), but not all that expensive, compared to the other capital expenses involved in being a landlord.
[1] https://evonestop.co.uk/collections/home-charging-range/prod...
The ones I was seeing were built into bollard-like posts.
Obviously bollards will cost more, but something like this would be suitable if you have parking spaces up against an existing wall.
There's a block heater for the engine, just to get the oil to a sane temperature. Pretty much every single parking spot in apartment buildings has an 8A/230V socket for it.
If you remove the default 2 hour timer from it, you can use the exact same socket to charge 100-200km of range to an electric car over night.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjiR-Wz_Z8s
And roadside wireless charging will be an interesting option in the future:
This is a stop gap until legislation requires EV charging be provided at apartments and workplaces (similar to handicap parking mandates).
In theory it should be possible to open up Superchargers to other brands, but it's more of a marketing/business issue than any technical problem.
I really don't see Volkswagen/Audi/BMW making a deal with Tesla to integrate their systems with the Tesla backend. Would you want your customers to use a competitors tools? =)
However Tesla destination chargers which are lower speed and three have been available for both Tesla cars and non-Tesla EVs.
But that’s changing soon, apparently:
A 3.7kW one will be more than enough for people working 9-5. The car will be sitting there doing nothing for 10+ hours anyway, why not charge at the same time.
Nothing will change without legislation though.
In Finland we changed the law so that if an apartment building has "major renovations", they MUST install EV charging capability for all parking spots. (No need to install a charger, it just needs to be possible).
The kind of mediocre little shops that you mostly only stop at for gas and only go into the store if you really need something though will suffer.
The only places I see dedicated electric 'gas stations' surviving is in rural locations along major highways.
I’m not sure how much gas pumps cost, but you’d still need the sawcutting and trenching, along with pipe. Probably about the same cost.
The electric work on top of that isn't that much, any parking garage should have more than enough electricity for lighting etc that can be tapped into.
And also consider that electric vehicle users can charge overnight at home, so those people driving 50-100 miles per day may not need to use a charging station at all, apart from long journeys - which is likely to impact the favorable locations significantly.
Even with super fast chargers, you're looking at 15-30 minutes for 100-200 miles of range, vs 5-10 minutes for 400-600 miles of range.
Assuming a limited amount of space for vehicles, a traditional liquid fuel filling station can probably handle 4-6 times as many customers, so the electric charging station will need more physical space to serve a similar amount of customers.
Users are going to want to do something for that time, so that convenience store will probably expand to add sit down food/drink facilities.
In short, I suspect that in 10-15 years time, filling stations will have evolved into something completely different.
Or maybe electric charging will be a bolt on to anything that has a car park, and dedicated charging locations will be relatively rare.
I think it will be both. Anywhere in and around a town or city will have electric charging at most normal parking spaces and basically no dedicated charging stations. Along major highways you'll see a lot more large dedicated charging stations like the ones you describe.
Even many commercial fleets won't have a need for stopping there as it'll be cheaper to charge wherever they're parked when not being driven.
Fast chargers will be necessary when traveling, but that's a small fraction of what gas stations see now. And even then it might look different (big trucks require a lot of space to park while charging, consumer traveling is concentrated in bursts based on time of the year).
Here in Finland the two largest charging networks are owned by ... grocery store chains.
Why would you stop at a janky gas station selling overpriced crap and day-old hot dogs, when you can take a 5 minute detour and go charge at a supermarket? Which usually has at least one fast-food place, maybe a restaurant and the snacks are orders of magnitude cheaper.
Also just by plugging in to an AC charger (11-22kW) when doing your shopping, you usually get back home with more charge than you left. The EV parking spots are usually at the best spots too, so that's an additional incentive.
It had three of those big charging stations with a vertical advertising screen, and the cables to charge your car were missing from all of them.
In fact we want them dead. Gas stations are usually occupying very nice commercial land.
Because they'll just put in fast chargers. There is a need for many more DC fast chargers than are currently available and gas stations are installing them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TVohXHjLro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6BGJy49u4w
EV fast charger installation is all about the location and gas stations already have good locations.
Indeed there will be people who have to inconveniently stop at one of these locations. But they’ll endeavour to avoid it whenever possible.
Furthermore, the fast chargers popping up everywhere near me are simply parking spots in more interesting commercial areas like Walmart, fast food, Home Depot, etc. Why would we have dedicated plots of land for just chargers? Install them in existing parking lots.
I’m convinced these gas stations are mostly going away.
To have cover out of the rain. To have room to charge with a trailer attached. To charge larger vehicles.
I think there’s a lack of imagination or a desire to confirm one’s priors.
You don't have to "think" anything. The practical outcomes speak for themselves. Chargers are going in at gas stations right now.
If I had an EV and couldn't charge at home, I'd be charging at the chargers next to one of my local supermarkets. I'm not going to go to one of the gas station locations around where I live and twiddle my thumbs for 20 minutes even if they had charging.
1) EV charger margin is higher when you compare the kWh rate they charge drivers to the local electric rates (sometimes 10c/kWH spread)
2) EV charging is 20-40min so they have more time to shop
3) EV owners are on average higher income, so should have more disposable income to spend
Probably some sort of Starbucks x Pret-A-Manger x fancy convenience store model would do well.
I was so fascinated by the business and life lessons he taught me. There are unscrupulous ways to make money, but fortunately these are not done by the majority. A gas station dealer has to buy gas from the company at a set price. Often times, there is a "black market" of gas, sometimes mislabeled, sometimes stolen, that is offered to dealers by unscrupulous people. You can buy this gas for cheaper and make more money on the margin. If the company catches you - and they have every incentive to catch you since you are not buying from them and selling an inferior product with their brand - you are in trouble.
This generalizes as the business model is based on creating a "basket" of complementary goods: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementary_good
There are things like loss leaders and subsidies that are designed to create a funnel for customers, which you then convert into higher margin item sales. The popocorn at movies is a great example. Warranties and online shipping fees are another one, as they are almost pure margin. Sure, you may make a 10% unit margin on your $20 tchotchka (e.g $2), but you make 80% margin on your "shipping cost" of $10, so your gross margin selling tchotchkas is really $10 (or 50%). It's same as how printers are just a way to sell ink in cartriges, which has probably a 50x markup, or 5000% margin. This is only slightly different from the old music business, where you paid $30+ for a $0.10 blob of plastic wrapped in cardboard with a marketing machine on top of it.
Social media has more of a publishing model, where their tech is "free," as a way to attract viewers to the ads they sell to advertisers. Most consumer software has this publishing model these days, whereas most enterprise software is really a channel to convert customers to high margin consulting and support services on top of the loss leader amortization of the cost of software development - which is why most of it sucks so badly.
Like selling gas in stations, subscription revenue for tech is good, but it's monotonic based on users and inelastic, where what gas stations figured out is that their core "subscription" business was really just a funnel to get conversions for higher value users.
For this reason, I'd speculate that gas stations periodically sabotage their pay at the pump machines, probably toward the end of a quarter, as a way to get a bump in people coming to the register and driving conversions to high-margin sugar/water products there.
There are just off highway service plazas in many places which have various qualities of food. If I'm doing a drive, I might prefer to keep going but between rest and snack stops, something like this is better than a random convenience store.
Great sandwiches too. And fun to shop around.
The cost of gas is subsidized by cigarettes, soda, lottery tickets, and candy.
Bizarre.
But it has always been one. Shell is not better for your car than BP or others, no matter what they say.
I think there is more to the story including how profits are made upstream more than at the forecourt.
Gas stations have been in decline for several decades.
In 1995, there were ~195k of them in the US; today, that number is down to ~115k. Contributors are Natural Gas, Electric Vehicles, Real Estate
I think this leaves out the shift toward much larger gas stations with 2x-3x as many pumps. I'm generally okay with this trend. The odds of me waiting for a pump are low and we seem to have enough stations to compete on price.
Anybody know what's going on in our brains, that this works on us?
Whereas the chips and cold soda are something of an impulse buy. People probably don't think about the price too much. It's something they want and, if they do think about the price, they figure (probably correctly) that it won't be cheaper at the next convenience store. And, even if a supermarket is handy, they're not going to spend 20 minutes dealing with that.
does this behavior come under the "mental accounting" topic that Richard Thaler talks about ?