They could ban elderly and overweight people and other such undesirables^Wvulnerable people from civil society too. For their own good.
With the common flu, you know almost instantly so you stay home to recover.
Fat people know their condition and it's their choice to eat fast food anyway. And obesity is also non contagious.
We do that to obese people already. It's called a diet. Some of them even go farther than mere "prescriptions" but with psychological tricks to keep people on track. Also, really, comparing obesity to COVID19 is an apples to oranges thing. Obesity is not even viral.
What you're missing is that in all these measures that seem so controversial (lockdowns, vaccination campaigns) preserving an individual's life/health is secondary to the main goal, a means to an end. The main goal is to not overwhelm the public healthcare infra.
No one cares if you want to go to a concert when you're ill but when that illness has the potential to strain public health resources, then that's a different story entirely.
> People with COVID-19 have had a wide range of symptoms reported – ranging from mild symptoms to severe illness. Symptoms may appear 2-14 days after exposure to the virus. Anyone can have mild to severe symptoms.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/symptoms-testing/s... (emphasis added)
but AFAIK even vaccinated people can spread the virus?
To put it another way, it doesn't matter if vaccinated people can still catch and spread the virus (any virus, even) as long as this infection chain does not result to an unmanageable pipeline of people who might need intensive medical care. In this context, the main benefit (but by no means only) of vaccines is the decreased hospitalization rate.
If the ends justifies the means, what other public health interventions should we carry out, even in cases where there's no direct harm to society[1]? Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US. Should we have blood pressure/cholesterol "passports" to pressure people into being healthier?
[1] ie. you getting infected and infecting other people, as opposed to the more tenuous link of you getting infected, having to go to the emergency room, causing the emergency room to go over capacity and causing someone to die because of lack of care
Is heart disease exponentially contagious with the potential to strain medical resources in a matter of days?
Again, these aren't interventions against social freedoms, rather an intervention to prevent a public service from being DDoSed, so to speak. The measures a matter of _hospitalization_. It's pointless to compare a "cause of death" metric to a "plain case count" metric.
How is this relevant when vaccinated people are still contagious?
>Again, these aren't interventions against social freedoms, rather an intervention to prevent a public service from being DDoSed, so to speak.
Just like banning encryption isn't against social freedoms, but rather an intervention to prevent baddies from winning?
> How is this relevant when vaccinated people are still contagious?
Because while still contagious, they are not exponentially contagious. It's not like I left out that important qualifier in the statement you are replying to.
Vaccinated people can spread in case of a breakthrough infection and infections are less likely to occur in vaccinated individuals.
> Just like banning encryption isn't against social freedoms...
Way to go attacking a straw man, and not even a particularly clever one at that. What does encryption have anything to do with vaccination and vaccination passports?
All contagion is exponential, but they have a much lower exponent.
1. source?
2. It really wasn't obvious because you failed to link "vaccinated" with "not exponentially contagious".
>What does encryption have anything to do with vaccination and vaccination passports?
In the previous comment you basically made the argument that the measures are justified because they're not "interventions against social freedoms, rather an intervention to prevent a public service from being DDoSed". I just took that argument to its logical conclusion. Law enforcement resources are stretched pretty thin, right? Why not give them a helping hand as well by allowing them to eavesdrop on everyone's communications? After all, it's not an intervention to decrease public privacy, it's an intervention to prevent law enforcement resources from being DDoSed.
2. I mean, this whole discussion is rather about the merits of vaccinations no?
> ... I just took that argument to its logical conclusion ...
This is just dishonest and misleading chain of reasoning:
- Law enforcement and public health are both public resources, yes, but of different nature and not comparable. I thought that's rather self-evident. Even assuming, for the sake of argument, that law enforcement is indeed stretched thin, aiding law enforcement takes on an entirely different form than aiding the public health sector.
- Encryption is not analogous to vaccination passports at all. It's not even an apples to oranges comparison, more like, apples to cars.
Please, do learn how metaphors work.
Just got my flu shot this week, but even for the young and healthy covid is more dangerous than the flu, except possibly in young children ages 0-12.
Nor is it really as simple as just trying to bully everybody into getting injected with vaccines that have been developed and pushed trough regulatory approval in record times.
The last time something like that happened, during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, it turned out the people skeptical of rushed vaccinations were actually the ones with the right idea.
While many others ended up suffering for the rest of their life’s for it, among them a whole lot of children.
To get vaccinated you have to just drop by the pharmacy during your grocery store run, wait about 15 minutes after the shot for observation, and it’s complete. (If taking a 2 shot vaccine, repeat the same 30 minute task 4 weeks later).
Asking people to become non-obese before entering society is an entirely different level of effort. Asking people to become non-elderly is an impossibility at our current or near-future level of science.
H1N1 was nowhere near as dangerous as COVID-19. And even in that case there’s no reason to believe getting the flu vaccine that year was a bad idea. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcoleps... “ In 2018, a study team including CDC scientists analyzed and published vaccine safety data on adjuvanted pH1N1 vaccines (arenaprix-AS03, Focetria-MF59, and Pandemrix-AS03) from 10 global study sites. Researchers did not detect any associations between the vaccines and narcolepsy.”
I am not asking for the impossible, I am asking that we also protect all the other undesirables and deplorables for their own good.