I’m very curious if we’ll start seeing a move off of windows for gaming rigs with this. The 100 dollar premium for windows takes a big bite out of a 1000 dollar gaming rig.
since i never play a game for that long, it works out great.
Microsoft and Google show you ads regardless of if you pay or not.
Seriously even my alarm clock app that I pay a monthly fee for tried to ask nicely if it was ok that they tracked me across web sites after Apple started enforcing their new rules.
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And: If anyone has a good alarm clock app for iPhone that makes sure I'm out of bed before it turns off, and that is a one time payment or a reasonable fee or even open source I'm all ears.
It works as described. One caveat: the website won't let you download an ISO if your browser's user-agent is set to Windows, instead it'll prompt you to use the Win10 media creation tool. But you can download the ISO if accessing from Linux/macOS/Android/etc., or by using a user-agent changer browser extension on Windows.
I consider my companies 1000+ server/desktop licences payment enough tbh.
I have no qualms about a pirated windows install. None. At. All.
Just as I'd like others to pay me if/when I release paid software.
That said, especially after Microsoft started double dipping Professional licenses they cannot complain if ordinary users don't see the point any longer.
I do real work with Linux.
But again, I've purchased windows hundreds of times, many of those being forced "purchases" due to smoky-back-of-room deals with OEMs. Frankly, MS exhausted all of my goodwill ages ago, and I've yet to see a real change in those underlying tactics.
MS has "sold" a fair bunch of licenses that have gone unused.
I'll keep buying licenses if I use it - and keep telling people that Linux has been usable for ordinary people the last decade, is faster, more exciting and collect less data about you and your family.
PS: MS employees here, your company really had the chance to be the serious choice but after getting ads on Professional licensed machines I just don't believe the marketing anymore.
Disable Windows Defender on your source folders (or just altogether to see the difference). Someday MS will figure out a good balance with all this.
It is something about the file system or io subsystem I think.
You are getting fully functional version with this. With updates and everything.
Should upgrade free to Windows 11 too.
:)
With a bit more time to prune services/apps and set up something like simplewall to block everything else, you have a pretty decent setup. Sure, it's not FOSS, but neither is Steam or any of those games.
Looking at my personal selection of long-tail games, about 1/3 work perfectly on Linux, another 1/3 don't work at all, and the last 1/3 have various levels of yak-shaving tweaking settings before they run well. That last 1/3 is why I went back to Windows years ago.
Seems like singleplayer games mostly work very well.
[0] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/08/linux-has-finally-hit-...
> Similarly if you’re building it yourself you can buy for significantly less from a reseller, many of which are wholly legitimate.
The horses mouth charges $140+, which is significantly more than the $100 that was about.
If you need multiple copies you can work with a VAR (Value Added Reseller) to get better pricing.
CDW.com is the big name in VAR's but they have enormous turnover in staff. I try to build relationships with smaller VAR's. I like these guys: https://greenbeetech.com/ it's a small company with two guys running it who have decades of VAR experience (former CDW people).
Navigating the process of compliantly licensing Microsoft as you scale up is quite a job. Having a good partner to help your organization stay compliant is very valuable.
Because illegitimate keys can be banned (and the hardware using them can be blacklisted) if they are found to be stolen or acquired in some other way that Microsoft does not like.
It's also a huge liability of you're doing any professional work with unlicensed and/or potentially illegal software licenses.
> It's also a huge liability of you're doing any professional work with unlicensed and/or potentially illegal software licenses.
is it really? at worst it's copyright infringement
Elite controller was $99, and I laughed when it was on sale for like $150 last week as a best ever deal.
Oh, wait the discount also applies to former employees?
Edit: yes if you are part of the alumni network. It has a fee but it is good value. TIL.
Which is less than the $140 that Microsoft charges for Win 10 Home, but it's still substantial: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/windows
Really, why wouldn't they? If you can't get it cheaper, they have no reason to sell it cheaper. Easy profit.
I don't think business-targeted sales are particularly in-scope. And even if they are, that only makes it worse, as it implies they're getting an even more significant profit margin.
I will probably give linux gaming another try in a few years but if it doesn’t “just work” I’m going back to windows for gaming.
I wonder how many people actually pay for Windows, since you don't have to activate it in order to use.
Haven't had to pay for a Windows key in years ^^
The nvidia driver actually works very well... The amdgpu driver wprks well but still has issues with suspend/hibernate. I'd say they are about the same IMO.
Good luck with older cards, ignored by the open source driver.
/usr/Programs (x86)/del
Sure, there were a few problems with Cyberpunk 2077 but they were resolved relatively quickly, given that the game has its own host of problems.
I have two almost identical high end machines running Ubuntu and Mankato. The first is more stable, the latter is simply better for gaming :/
Also if you bought Windows 7 so far you could’ve updated it upto 11 without paying anything extra if you leveraged the update Windows that Microsoft offered.
This list also overlooks other very popular games that aren’t on Steam like Call of Duty Warzone and Fortnite…
Well yes, it is, as the title makes pretty clear, the top 50 games on Steam. That said, non-Steam games can work just fine with Proton, wrappers like Lutris make this only a couple clicks more than Steam.
Fortnite is limited by EAC: https://lutris.net/games/fortnite/, and I'm not very familiar with Warzone but I suspect it's a similar situation.
Basically unless they have a native version or a developer which officially endorses proton MP is often out of the question because it either won’t work/ban risk or the game doesn’t have client anti cheat detection which means in many cases it would be ripe with cheaters.
At least that was the case with the Lenovo laptops I personally and also the company I work for (Linux shop) bought.
AFAIK the PC market is low margin, and the only place they really get margin is from all the crap ware they 'offer' and stuff like margins on windows licenses and such.
I think microsoft has realized the real price for windows is $10 too, which is why they are adding all the adware crap in it. Otherwise it's not tenable as a business for them, even if they are a selling a huge volume of it.
I'm sure that is where we are heading in the long term. I used to spend a lot of money on software for my business, now the majority of what I use is free. I can't see Microsoft being able to escape that forever.
On the other hand, the games it does work with are nearly flawless. I play Overwatch, Splitgate, and Battlefield online pretty regularly without issue, and single-player titles like The Sims, Rimworld and Noita function out-of-the-box. With more and more games "just working" on the platform, I think in 2 or 3 years it will be particularly competitive with Windows 11. Today though? It's a bit of a mixed bag.
I could use a mac, but they don't have justifiable storage costs and external storage is annoying, costs more and is less reliable than internal storage, and macs don't do games well anyway and I just built a new mini-ITX sized PC. Apple is also going down a path in computing I don't like, so I don't know if they are that viable too...
Not 100. And 1000$ is just a video card. Not a newest one too.
Most people I know are more than happy to pay that premium compared to the hassle of dealing with Linux. Also, a lot of those savvy enough to use Linux will just crack Windows or get a key at a discount through a reseller.
It’s very rare to have issues if the game is rated Platinum in protondb and sometimes a setting in the Steam GUI needs to be changed if it’s gold or silver.
All in all I find it significantly less annoying than dealing with Windows’ ads and forced updates.
Performance can still be an issue, mostly because the Nvidia graphics drivers are performing worse on Linux vs on Windows.
For example, it would mean every graphics card driver that supports opengl is an emulation of opengl.
This is an outdated take, from my perspective, as someone who is an avid gamer and who is running only Linux at home currently. While no doubt it's easy to find problem games, the point of the very article this thread linked is that it's come such a long way that the majority of the top titles in terms of hours played on Steam now work in Proton.
There's been a few examples where people have compared the performance across games and found it's basically tied in the majority of games but occasionally there will be an outlier that plays better on Windows. Less often, there will be an outlier that plays better on Linux.[1]
If Valve sorts out the Anti-Cheat stuff, the number of games that don't actually run (and run well) on Linux could drop to near zero.
Proton isn't really emulation; a better way to think of it is that it's a compatiblity layer, much the same way DirectX, Vulkan, et. al, are compatiblity layers.
> Most people I know are more than happy to pay that premium compared to the hassle of dealing with Linux.
This part is more likely for far more users. However, it misses the point entirely. For a great number of years, as a gamer, I had to keep around a Windows system in order to partake in my hobby. That's not really the case anymore.
I can see how something would be rated 'platinum' for linux still be unacceptable in those ways. If your playing a single player game I can see how it's ok, but not for twitchy multiplayer games like MOBAs or FPSs.
Due to macOS not supporting Vulkan and other stuff required for Proton, it's been on the backburner for support from Valve for a while. Portal 2 can't even run on macOS anymore since it is 32-bit only. Most games work how they would on Windows when running under Proton vs a native port, you should try it on a Linux machine when you have time.
You should give it a go (even on the same hardware) on Linux.
On the other hand, knowing gamers, I'm pretty sure many would change if games on Linux were 2% faster... (higher fps)
I don't think Linux will replace Windows for gaming any time soon, but Linux gaming has a very real value proposition in a way it didn't just a few years ago.
https://www.howtogeek.com/688970/what-was-ibms-os2-and-why-d...
My prediction is twofold. First, that there's very, very little chance this will any have measurable impact on the overall proportion of Steam/PC gamers who use Windows. Solutions like Steam Deck will be the most popular venue for Proton, but this will actually sell the best with people who will keep using Windows. Why wouldn't it? As someone who games a lot, the only reason I would want one is to have my already existing library on the go. It essentially solves that "I wish this was on Switch" problem, especially for indie games. But I don't think of my Switch as a replacement for my PC, either. From this POV, it's fine if some things don't work (I'm no Warzone/Apex/League addict) or the mobile performance constrains things a little, because the accessibility and my game library is overall enough to offset some of those issues.
But actual Windows gamers who use Windows exclusively, and are going to suddenly see the Steam Deck or Proton and be like, "Wow, now I'm going to use Linux, and move over my whole game library since it's obviously so great", who aren't already software engineering/SRE/existing Linux users? Practically non-existent, or so little in number to be non-existent, I'd predict. They don't even really pay for the Windows license as another comment pointed out, the OEMs do and this subsidizes the product (along with mass volume) even further. This is related to my original point: the reason your question is even getting responses in the positive isn't because there's some massive contingency of Windows gamers looking to throw away their install. It's because you're asking on Hacker News.
Not even in the slightest. Linux marketshare is still insignificant to even Chromebooks. This is just the echo chamber that is HN that thinks Linux is bigger than it is. Remove all CS majors in the world and I'd wager the amount of people who've touched Linux is less than .01%
Edit: I love how HN downvotes because someone gives them a reality check on their beloved Linux. I will give $1000 to anyone who is willing to give their parent who doesn't know jack about computers Linux and tell them "figure it out." None of them will be able to do it.
I'm not part of the group that downvoted you, but why would the only people touching Linux be CS majors? I'm not a CS major and I think most people I know that voluntarily use Linux on a daily basis isn't neither.
As someone who taught in an accounting school where awareness of Linux was higher than you state, I can tell you this is false.
Give it up already, face the fact that Linux is more popular and well-known than you want it to be, for whichever reason.
Android is a Linux distribution it is the #1 phone OS (73% market share this year). ChromeOS is a Linux distribution and is the leading OS by market share in K-12 schools. Both are cheap and easy. In ChromeOS's case, they are easier for both administrators to manage and users. I'm also sure the students using Chromebooks have not completed their CS degrees yet, but one can hope.
Linux community likes to pat themselves on the back thanks to Android and ChromeOS using the Linux kernel, yet they are oblivious to the fact that Linux syscalls aren't part of the official stable API, only certain ChromeOS models do run Linux (a yet another guest OS, WSL style), and then what GNU/Linux gets are Electron apps.
I'm not sure you could pull any random Linux user and have them truly understand Excel either.
As a Linux user who did not major in business, I bet your odds with Linux users would be markedly worse than with business majors on this one, hahaha
the NT native kernel API is also undocumented
Also, contrary to Windows, since Android 7, applications that link to undocumented APIs get terminated as security measure.
Ask the termux guys how much fun they are having by refusing to acknowledge the fact that they have to use JNI and not Linux syscalls for their stuff.
"undocumented" has nothing to do with it
there is a sandbox, syscalls are checked by seccomp and those not explicitly permitted will result in termination of the application
it doesn't care where the syscall comes from, be that libc, golang style, or calling svc #0 yourself
additionally: the kernel is open source... there are no "undocumented" syscalls
this also has nothing to do with the original point
Something that termux guys are having some issues to swallow, regarless of Linux being the kernel, it is not allowed to do what they want, wrapping Java APIs via JNI is the only allowed way.
Though even outside of that you'd be surprised where people have unknowingly used Linux. ATMs, Point-Of-Sale, Infotainment (Planes/Cars), public transit, arcades, etc. I'd estimate that a majority of people have had some interaction with a Linux-based system.
> I will give $1000 to anyone who is willing to give their parent who doesn't know jack about computers Linux and tell them "figure it out." None of them will be able to do it.
One of my grandparents runs Ubuntu and they're able to handle their email and documents just fine. Arguably better than the others who run macOS/Windows. You can find plenty of similar anecdotes online; if all you need is a browser and possibly basic word processing it's not all that different.
Android. I'd say a huge percentage of computing device users have Linux in their pocket and quite literally touch linux on regular basis.
> I will give $1000 to anyone who is willing to give their parent who doesn't know jack about computers Linux and tell them "figure it out." None of them will be able to do it.
I've done this, 10 years ago with my aging Mom and Dad and it worked well. Stock Kubuntu works closely enough to Windows, Chrome and Firefox are identical, the built in photo manager and video players just worked, and it put an end to malware and viruses. Please donate the $1000 to a local food bank, please. I do not what the check.
Two weeks ago, my son and I re-purposed a three year old cryptocoin mining desktop into a gaming machine. We loaded it up with Kubuntu and Steam and ... well, I thought I'd have to install Windows. No problems. Proton lived up to the hype.
This is what I call the "Granma case". Considering the uses case is very well defined and the possibility of using exotic hardware and services and basically never needing to install any software; this is the situation where linux shines the brightest. My mom has being using linux having 0 idea what it was and needed 0 assistance to browse the web, access social networks, see photographs and videos and listen to music. That's all she does and any modern linux is much better than windows for this specific use case. No need to care about anti-virus, degrading performance, malware, advertisements... it is perfect for that.
Also things don't randomly move around so much between upgrades like they do on commercial OS's.
people mentioning android have forgotten that android hides many parts of linux. and manufacturers make sure your device hardware works well with the operating system.
other have mentioned relatives who are using linux on desktop. that they are doing limited activities such as browsing and emails. that's fair but the story of how they discovered linux would be the most interesting one.
which brings me to op's cs majors point. so many things have changed that we should not dismiss the claim but think about it.
do happenstances of the past still present themselves to people today. i discovered linux through a pc magazine back in the late 90s. pc magazines back then offered young people like myself at the time a way to try new things on the computer. and i did try everything.
what is the equivalent of that nowadays?
My father is tech illiterate enough that he manually searches and navigates to the unemployment website each week rather than figure out bookmarks.
He's been on an Ubuntu laptop a friend gave him since late last year. I kept expecting to have to walk him through it, but it hasn't happened yet.
How about we show some compassion and take time to help people around things, especially when they are people we care about and things we care about as well?