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Comment by teekert | Hacker News Reader

It should also have an arm on the door to slap your hand when you open it for the 41st time in a day. I mean, that's insane, you deserve a slap.

Btw, this reminds me a bit of my parent's Renault that would tell me every damn time I started it to follow traffic regulations. I wish I could slap that car and it would feel it.

And then there's my father-in-law's Mazda, which has a GPS system that sometimes finds him 200 km off the mark, and it keeps talking nonsense. You can't silence it because the touch screen doesn't work while driving. Yeah you can guess how that makes one feel.. like slapping it.

Oh boy, I also have an Amazfit smart watch, imagine mountainbiking at high speed, you quickly want to see how many KMs you still have to go. You look at the screen and it says: "PAI 50 Good Job!" (full screen! Despite talking the time to make the display show you only relevant things in settings) and you need your f-king other hand (while biking) to dismiss the notification. Yup, slapping and cursing it is.

Do people even use the stuff they make themselves?

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It seems most "UX" tends to be less about the user and more about exposing the product.

One example is the pause screens in Netflix and other streaming services. I sometimes want to pause the screen to read a letter or examine easter eggs left by the movie producers. I can't do that, as Netflix has a semi-transparent overlay with lots of unnecessary graphics and voting buttons.

Half the screen is also covered with the logo and/or poster from the movie I'm currently watching... as if I need to know?

They could at least provide an option to remove the graphic if you actually want to look at the paused movie.

Absolutely! The top issue with model universally terrible UX is precisely trying to bring attention to itself rather than simply being the most efficient means to an end: interacting with the software.

Right on! That kind of terrible UX technology whose primary purpose is to draw attention to itself instead of receding into the background is the opposite of Calm Technology / Ubiquitous Computing, as described by Mark Weiser at Xerox PARC:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Weiser#Ubiquitous_computi...

Ubiquitous computing and calm technology

Ubiquitous computing names the third wave in computing, just now beginning. First were mainframes, each shared by lots of people. Now we are in the personal computing era, person and machine staring uneasily at each other across the desktop. Next comes ubiquitous computing, or the age of calm technology, when technology recedes into the background of our lives.

— Mark Weiser

During one of his talks, Weiser outlined a set of principles describing ubiquitous computing:

- The purpose of a computer is to help you do something else.

- The best computer is a quiet, invisible servant.

- The more you can do by intuition the smarter you are; the computer should extend your unconscious.

- Technology should create calm.

In Designing Calm Technology, Weiser and John Seely Brown describe calm technology as "that which informs but doesn't demand our focus or attention."

1996 Computer Science Challenges for the Next 10 Years:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jwLWosmmjE

Designing Calm Technology:

https://www.karlstechnology.com/blog/designing-calm-technolo...

If you just tap anywhere without pressing the play button all of that UI goes away and you get back to the pure video, just paused...

It comes back after a few seconds. For this to work, you have to constantly be moving your mouse around.

Prime on the other hand lets you pause, read and even know about the person in frame and trivia about the movie or tv series being played. They don't have much content but they are way better than Netflix in Ux.

I was going to say the same about Prime, but it's not perfect either.

Their Windows app is terrible. It takes forever to start for some reason. Sometimes, after a few minutes, I just give up and launch the browser. Sometimes if I try to get back 10 seconds it will just freeze playback. I can sometimes get it back by trying to fast-forward around. Others I have to stop watching and start again.

This never happens on the web app.

Ah, I essentially live in Netflix, so I was pretty sure you are wrong, but I'm seeing the issue: "mouse"... you are on a computer? No clue how that works ;P. I use their app (on AppleTV and iOS).

Can’t tap on a console connected to a living room TV.

I have Netflix on my PS3 and when you pause you only get the noisy overlay after idling for 10 seconds or so. I press UP on the DPAD and it goes away, as UP does nothing if your focus is on the pause/play button. You can do it with SELECT too, it's also a dead key.

I am using a box (Android TV) and was finally able to remove the overlay by pressing the "back" button on my remote. Not exactly obvious, and not what I would call a good User eXperience.

Ah, I get the same urge using Google Maps on my phone. Want to reach through the screen and slap the developers. So slow, so many key presses. So often it changes something up so I have to re-learn. So often it makes wild guesses that are completely off what I'm actually trying to achieve. Have to press back button a hundred times to get out of whatever it's showing me, whops one too many, app is now closed, have to open up and get back to where I wanted. It's the most frustrating app experience I have on a daily basis.

> Have to press back button a hundred times to get out of whatever it's showing me, whops one too many, app is now closed, have to open up and get back to where I wanted.

This happens every time, and every time I wish there'd be a "back to start" action. It's probably faster to just kill the app and restart than navigate all the way back while being careful not to go back once too often.

I use Google Maps via Android Auto. Sometimes I like to take a more scenic route, so I'll say:

'OK Google, avoid motorways'

And it will route me past anything officially called a motorway, sadly not including the A roads that are very similar.

Eventually I might decide I want to proceed more quickly, so I'll say:

'OK Google, use motorways'

At which point it will perform a Google search and read out the first result, a page from the government telling me how to use a motorway.

doot dee doot, it's labor day weekend, and I'm using Apple maps to navigate instead of Google (it's easier to activate via voice). The low-fuel light turns on while cruising along an unfamiliar stretch of highway, just as I'm finishing an interchange as I leave the dense city and head through its suburbia. I'm not quite sure of whether to expect service plazas, or just-off-exit-ramp gas stations, or what. I've seen gas stations, but not the nice blue signs saying "gas, exit N", and not sure if that'll change soon. And I'd prefer to get gas quickly, then back on the highway, instead of exploring for it.

Can technology help me? I haven't tried it in a while... What can the vaunted Voice Assistant do for me today?

"Hey siri, I need gas!"

I've found these results. The first of these is BJ's Gas, one point two miles west. Is this the one you wanted?

. o O ( I'm traveling east, so maybe not?? )

"No!"

Okay. Another option is Citgo, at <address>... Is this the one you want?

"Yes!" . o O ( sure why not )

Would you like to call, or get directions?

...

Postscript: the correct answer would have been, There's a service plaza ahead in 14 miles. Is that soon enough?

Waze has been pretty good at finding gas stations along my route and organizing them by distance from me and distance from my route. Like it would show a gas station 2 miles off the highway from the next exit but it will also list out a gas station that is 15 miles away right off the highway. Either option is up to you based on how much time you want to waste versus how soon you need gas.

Waze is also great at flickering in your periphery when you come to a stop.

Waze used to be good, like 11 years ago.

The advertising is larger and there's more per stop, but I mostly never notice since I turn the screen off. Some day I suppose they'll begin speaking.

“Find gas stations along the route and show me a list sorted by distance from my expected route” is a function I had in a stock nav system in 2007. I think it was two button presses away. We’ve definitely regressed.

Not to mention, when we click the start button for navigation why the heck do they not increase the speaker volume, handle brightness, rotate the screen automatically? There could even be a setting for it. Sometimes I feel like a robot repeating the same useless clicks all over again every time I navigate.

Organic Maps isn't as full featured, but so far, works well for directions here.

Also works 100% offline, after downloading maps.

Thanks, that looks like a very useful app.

For others who might be interested, it can be found here: https://organicmaps.app

"Oh, you're following my navigation directions? I'm going to re-route you with no notice."

Some cars in arab countries have a feature where the "travel prayer" is recited via the speakers upon starting the car. It takes about one minute [1]. Fortunately our company car hat a button to turn the feature off. Of course we always turned it back on to annoy the next (non-muslim western) car user. Saudi airlines also plays the prayer (or used to?), however by someone with a really deep voice and with cave-like reverb, which made is sound quite unlike any other airplane announcement. [2]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGCPtF6XVIY [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_TVsxFChrk

That is very funny but speaking in practical terms, and not about UX, how does a feature like this work in practice? Does Allah respond to prayers emitted by electronics? Or is the idea that the human is supposed to recite the prayer along with the recording?

The idea is to keep people in line within the tribe by forcing rituals.

I have the same odd question about listening to contemporary Christian radio stations - does one become holier when the music is playing instead of the top 40 pop station?

I expect it makes people happier to listen to music they enjoy. So the same as someone listening to classical stations, or country, or whatever.

Maybe people enjoy hearing prayer radios. I spent time in Nepal and people would listen to recorded meditations and chants. But I didn’t hear them on the radio, it was recorded on phones and iPods and stuff.

For some, maybe just holier-than-thou - but then, so too can highbrow art.

The idea is to use some peoples receptivity to religion for shifting their awareness to the risks of traveling. It can also help to center thoughts, calm down, and increase mindfulness while steering the motorized vehicle, therefore decreasing traffic accidents. (I wonder whether there are studies on if this actually helps.)

Ah, that's interesting. Speaking from personal experience (and as an atheist, who happened to grow up in a religious household), I think many atheists are too quick to dismiss the value of rituals/prayers/meditations. As you pointed out, there can be value even if the deity to whom the prayer is offered doesn't exist or isn't listening.

For example, growing up my family began and ended each meal with a prayer of, essentially, thanksgiving, with a few other requests thrown in ("keep us safe", etc.) This delimited the meal time: we were there for the duration, we all started eating together and there was no leaving before the meal had ended. I don't remember the prayer any more but I do have fond memories of family dinners, the unity and connection we all experienced during that time and the spirited conversations they featured. Prayers of thanksgiving also center the experience of eating in one of gratitude.

There's deeply embedded programming in our brains related to sharing a meal with others which strengthens social bonds. Rituals like this very much play into that. As do lunch with colleagues or dinner dates.

Well, there's precedent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_wheel

That's quite an ominous way to have the prayer recited, like the audio for Gandalf reciting the ring inscription in black speech. I would probably feel unsettled rather than calmed hearing that before a flight.

I assume maybe if it's your language/culture/religion you'd find it soothing rather than ominous?

It's not about the language/religion, it's about the audio editing. I could see reverb/delay being a part of Muslim culture, but it can definitely be jarring if it's not part of the listener's culture

They definitely don't, the entire consumer electronics is a huge practical joke on its users. It's not only smart devices - even the induction stove with the integrated touch buttons beeping loudly at you and shutting off every time you breathe around them. And I could go on...

Oh man, I absolutely hate the touch buttons on my stove. A simple action like turning the heat up or down takes 2 actions and five minutes – you have to touch for a duration before the action registers.

And yet I still manage to accidentally press them when I don’t mean to. The other day I wished out loud that my stove had a button to turn on the buttons so the buttons would work when I want and not work when I don’t.

Maybe the next gen model will have a Button Button^TM and we will have reached peak absurdity.

> Maybe the next gen model will have a Button Button^TM

Please, make it a switch. A touch button will never work there.

Ha! In an older flat I had a "lock" button on the stove. Touch button, of course. And for some reason, it would always register an inadvertent touch.

Of course, once locked, the buttons wouldn't work, but the lock light wasn't obvious enough.

Not to mention it won't register at all if your hands are wet.

Good thing that never happens in the kitchen...

We bought an Instant Pot-brand air fryer. I love the thing entirely except for the buttons. They are not real buttons, just some sort of touch sensor but they sometimes just cannot detect a finger. You'd think that maybe the surface was dirty but it works just as bad when it's just been cleaned off and hands are washed. I beginning to think that the actual sensors are not aligned perfectly with the labels or that they are set to ignore someone pressing with their whole finger instead of the just the tip.

I have this too. I've had to unplug it entirely and plug it back in to make it work sometimes. Hilarious that "did you try restarting it?" now applies to air fryers.

FWIW most of the touch issues I have with mine are due to moisture. If my hands are wet at all or there's any moisture on the panel (sometimes happens with cooking) then I have to wipe it down with a dry paper towel.

One other fun thing I discovered - if you push the light button on and off again repeatedly it eventually stops letting you do it. I didn't count the number of times it took, maybe 20-30 times. I was clearly really bored waiting for my food to finish

> Btw, this reminds me a bit of my parent's Renault that would tell me every damn time I started it to follow traffic regulations.

There are people who would benefit from this reminder. They, however, tend to not drive Renaults, but Audis and BMWs.

> Do people even use the stuff they make themselves?

Last I’ve heard they were using A/B tests to choose between crazy features and batshit insane features to maximize engagement and brand awareness. So, I’m afraid the answer is no.

> There are people who would benefit from this reminder. They, however, tend to not drive Renaults, but Audis and BMWs.

I've had this game with my wife while driving somewhere for the last 10 years.

I see someone doing a dangerous pass, driving (way) too fast, cutting someone off too quickly, tailgating, etc, etc, etc, and before I can tell the brand/model, I tell my wife "It's one of those again" (and I would also include Mercedes here), and in 95% of cases I'm right.

I'm not saying every driver of those brands are guilty of it, but the guilty drivers are swallowed by the brand owner group in the Venn diagram. At least locally in my experience. It's fascinating.

Drove today in a 20 kph zone. Was just dragging behind a BMW that was going nicely within the speed limit. It was so uncharacteristic that I thought: man, it won't end well. Such things don't just happen. He's gonna do something.

A moment later the BMW turned left without blinking. Well. At least I knew I wasn't dreaming it. The world was back to how I knew it.

I witnessed a similar thing today, I was the first car in front of a black BMW for over 20 kilometers on twisty country roads. There was a young man behind the wheel and he gave me lots of space when I was turning onto the road on a busy intersection, was keeping his distance, never looked down at his phone AFAIK, and it felt really nice not to be expecting to be hit from behind at any moment.

My GF does a similar thing, but it's spotting woman drivers from behind.

My belief is that it's usually the girl and women's boyfriends and husbands who are to blame, because they don't let them drive very often or even ridicule them from the passenger seat when they do, but the end result is quite pronounced where I live (Czech Republic).

Dunno. Here in Poland women are less reckless (more reckful? Angličtina je opravdu divná). I haven't spotted a marked difference.

It's more about drivers who think they know it all. What I fear most on the road is a self-proclaimed veteran driver. I've learned to drive at 37 years old, maybe it's got something to do with it.

In case anybody has doubts about this:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S22141...

I think that at least partially is because those cars drive so well. It just doesn’t feel like you’re going fast in them.

As an extreme example, anybody who has ever been in a Citroen 2CV knows that you wouldn’t do any of those [1] because of a) the noise and b) the fear.

[1] with the exception of tailgating of trucks. That’s [2] the only way to relatively comfortably do close to 100 km/hour in these.

[2] https://hubnut.org/2013/09/08/2cv-enjoy-the-silence/ also helps.

Hear hear! Cars and technology has a lot of catching up to do when it comes to safety. For example, I recently changed from Android to iOS for a better driving experience (I thought) since Android Auto was a bit laggy. While CarPlay is more fluid seemingly (which could also be from the hardware upgrade), what's worse is the UX downgrade that happen when I went from Android Auto to CarPlay.

I have a million of examples where the UX sucks, but I discovered something downright dangerous (and should possibly even be illegal): If you're using Google Maps/Waze for navigation and you receive a call, then the entire screen gets covered with the phone number and the answer button, while you're driving and using the navigation! Absolutely bonkers how somebody thought it was a good idea.

Never before have it been as clear that the people building these things (like CarPlay) never actually tried to use their own stuff.

I use Waze (on the iPhone) and it doesn't have that problem.

I normally use both Waze and Google Maps, have this problem happening all the time, although it was a long time ago I drove now so maybe got fixed in the last month or so? I have a iPhone 12 Mini if that bears any difference.

my car doesn't have Android Auto, so I have my Google-phone in a phone holder. It has the exact same problem: calls have precedence over navigation. Bonkers!

Carplay tries to be too safe by not allowing anything while driving. Instead this leads you into spending more attention on the screen - searching for buttons you thought should exist but simply don't.

> full screen! Despite talking the time to make the display show you only relevant things in settings

This is a long standing gripe I have with the Apple Watch too—a busy group chat can effectively DDoS you out of being able to use the thing, because notifications are always full screen. There’s also a ~2 second delay before a notification can actually be dismissed, because it has to complete its swoopy animation first.

It doesn’t sound too bad, but when your average interaction with a smart watch is 10 seconds or less it becomes a real annoyance.

I'm not a fan of "someone made this art so it will play/display for N seconds every time some thing happens. Not in video games, not on watches, not on phone apps, and my eye is twitching so I can't think of any other examples

That reminded of my father-in-law's Chevrolet, every time you turn off the car it very loudly announces for you to "please check if you haven't left any belongings in the back seat" (or some nonsense like that).

So every time he drops us off late at night the car screaming wakes the baby when we arrive.

There is usually a setting for the rear seat reminder. It's to remind people to not leave their babies in the car. Maybe the volume is purposefully set a little high to wake the kid up just in case you forget.

Do people really need a reminder to not forget their babies? From a car? What?

99.999% of the time, no. But the consequences of forgetting are disastrous, and it's happened to plenty of well-meaning but distracted and preoccupied people. It was one of my greatest fears when my kids were young.

Fatigue, some medications (and drugs, to be fair), and stress, perhaps? Being tired or stressed has made me miss exits. Then again, songs on the radio or whatever have, too.

In 2006 I had a new Prius that turned on a loud, annoying back up beeper. It would wake my theninfant son up. I finally found a "cheat code" that let me enter a service menu and disable it.

The GPS in my car does that, it's so annoying. I like to leave it on 'map view' where it shows current location and the street name at the top, and every time it starts I have to 'ok' a disclaimer telling me to focus on the road.

Infuriating.

> my father-in-law's Mazda... the touch screen doesn't work while driving

Sounds like it's an older model, and I can tell you from personal experience Mazda, at least, has learned from their mistakes (regarding touchscreens). I know the 2020 models, and I believe much earlier, have all gone back to physical, tactile buttons. Real buttons, not Volkswagon's stupid, stupid capacitive buttons. Watching Jason Camisa dunk on VW's UX was an exercise in vindication for having avoided that horseshit [0].

They are clicky, settings are remembered, and it does what you tell it to do. Frankly, that's all it took for me to insist our new car be a Mazda. And while I apologize for the rant, finding a new car that doesn't tell you to use a touchsceen at 110km/h is far harder than it should be - and what a sad state of affairs that is.

[0] https://youtu.be/XGbPHp6QfkQ

I'll just leave this right here. https://mazdatweaks.com/

The only thing I did with my Mazda infotainment system was update the firmware and the retrofit kit to support CarPlay. I find the commander knob not that hard to use with some experience, but with the AIO tweaks you can enable the touchscreen while driving. To each their own I guess.

> It should also have an arm on the door to slap your hand when you open it for the 41st time in a day.

He does say later on that they have kids which perfectly explains why the fridge door is like a turnstile.

They should ask and receive consent before using in such rude ways.

Liberation and rights for non binary living things are the order of the day. The International NBLT society explicitly declared and demanded for their rights at their recent Silicon Valley conference as per this NYT article.

> Do people even use the stuff they make themselves?

Yeah, and usually the devs know that what they have done is sub-optimal at best... but that doesn't count against the dominance of marketing or legal in decisionmaking.

Are you just objecting to the method by which the fridge is providing useful performance information to the owner, or are you objecting to the fridge providing that information at all?

and oh my God don't get me started about glass ketchup bottles like they just don't work?! it's insanity trying to get ketchup out it's ludacris and oh my god

I'm thinking, all a glass bottle of Ketchup needs is a smart fridge able to detect that last bit and warn you about how hard it will be to get it out and offer advice on how to do so. Maybe some gamification could be thrown in, get more kudos the less you leave in? Yeah I'm filing patents and will contact Heinz... Think about the opportunity for notifications!

What about... turning it upside down and let graivity do its job?

That could be something the fridge can suggest, in email+notification+display on the outside [in flashing red]! You're on to something here!

Maybe the slapping hand (that warns you you've opened the fridge enough for the day) can be used to slap the back of the Ketchup bottle as well.

In order to maintain privacy, I'd suggest that the Heinz bottle compare a ketchup image to a hash of over-empty bottles.

The iHeinz can then send a notification to the manufacturer who then passes it to the Ketchup Police.

Maybe the bottle can include a time crystal that could advance the time by an hour so you don't have to wait for gravity.

I'd honestly rather buy ketchup in a refill bag for my plastic bottle than a glass bottle.

The secret is to store the bottle upside down in your fridge.

Also works well on honey bottles

I do this, with plastic bottles. It's a dangerous game with glass bottles and kids opening the fridge.

thank you for your public service. I owe you.

re-vo-lutionary.

genius!

I know this is sarcasm, but on the off chance it's not please assume that I was very disrespectful to you :)

Some folks actually invented a ketchup-phobic bottle coating. Their company is Liquiglide. It also works for many other things- Colgate uses it in some products but Heinz appears to have settled for upside-down bottles.

The problem is not just the bottle though, right, it's that ketchup is a non-Newtonian fluid.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ketchup-is-not-ju...

invest.

my other comment was not financial advice.

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