Hacker News Reader

Comment by mikewarot | Hacker News Reader

Unless you're going to be a Professional Engineer or some other licensed individual, or you're getting a free ride, college isn't worth it any more.

Going deep into debt for a credential that doesn't have a reasonably large future value is a huge mistake many are pushed into making.

View on HN

This is just not borne out by the data. The gap between high school grads and college grads pay is getting wider and wider.

You shouldn't go to college if you aren't going to be a serious student and you'll be a legitimate risk for dropping out. But if you are willing to commit yourself and get decent grades, you'll be in much better shape than most people with just a high school diploma.

Your advice is also sounds really out of touch with what various jobs pay. The average new college grad makes like 60k or so.

I can only speak to my workplace and team, but we pay product designers with very little experience around 90k a year. I have no licenses and am not a professional engineer, and I make several times that.

The issue is that far too many people are going into debt for college degrees and not getting the degrees. That's the biggest. The secondary issue is that college is becoming more and more expensive, but it is still paying off for the majority of bachelor degree holders.

You make several times 90k?? So like how much? Several has to be at least 3 right, so $300k+?

What degree do you have??

Software engineers with ~5 years of experience (and probably less) can earn $300k-$400k annually in the Bay Area or New York if working for a large tech company.

This is a tiny fraction of software engineers. The vast majority in the wider Western world earn less than an average tradesman. The higher end of salaries in the UK is £40-50k, most earning substantially less than that.

The much higher salaries paid by the major US companies are so anomalous that they may as well be discarded in any comparisons.

No it is the international investor effect. People do not invest locally. The money goes to a few proven places rather than circulating throughout the entire country.

You can call the investors kings and the workers are chasing the kings money.

The higher end in London is substantially more than that across banking, insurance and foreign tech companies and contracting day rates were really rather good. Admittedly I’ve been out of the U.K. for long enough to see what impact Brexit has had, especially on contracting day rates.

Still nothing like the US though, and the cost of living is not much different than New York City IME.

While most software engineers in the U.S. don't make 300-400k, you will make above 100k pretty quickly. You can make 150k-ish total comp at tons of places in the United States. These places will usually offer very good benefits too.

Human-computer interaction. I'm not in my 20s, and I'm not an individual contributor, so that skews my pay, but I also don't think I've come close to my ceiling yet.

I went to college and I wasn't a "serious" student. Went on a half scholarship, got pretty good grades (most of the time), and majored in CS.

Took on around 50k at around 5% interest. Wouldn't change a thing in the world about it. Easily paid it off over a few years.

According to the article women still believe the trade-off to be worth paying for and attending college since their application numbers are still holding steady.

Are most of them making a huge mistake? I guess it depends heavily in the credential(s), but I think there has to be a deeper reason for falling and unbalanced undergraduate enrollment amongst men.

All Ponzi schemes collapse, the growth colleges experienced in the past led them to be overly optimistic and make promises they can no longer meet. The falling debris from the collapse is already happening, as the wave of unbreakable and unpayable student debt imprisons a generation.

Women are known to chase institutional accolades more than men when given the opportunity. It is in line with a general preference for more security.

Will it work today? Probably. There are few women in the trades. If you can get a cheap degree, it is likely better than no degree.

No, women are generally underpaid compared to men, so it's obvious that they'll try to get the appropriate degrees in order to be able to compete.

Women don’t earn less for the same work. Never married women with no kids actually out earn never married men with no kids.

Please read “why men earn more” by Warren Farrell or skim the table of contents for a list of some of the factors that influence earnings, such as working longer hours, in a different field, in unpleasant conditions, etc.

I always assumed no one give me benefit of doubt if I don't have something actually in hand. Which meant for me, I would expect the degree to be necessary for me to get the first job.

Anecdotal but I've noticed that for a lot of women, achieving the degree seems to be the end goal and status symbol, while for men the degree is just a path to better financial outcomes. If the calculation for the latter has changed to where degree is no longer worth it compared to alternatives, that could explain it.

There are plenty of degrees that are worth the effort. This idea that college doesn’t have a justifiable return seems to be pushed by people who already have degrees.

Engineering or bust just isn’t true.

I’m not sure why you focus on the PE licensure - the vast majority of working engineers do not need this (but do need a college degree).

In many places, If you're not licensed, you can't call yourself an engineer.

Many positions require a degree to apply for them unless if your working for yourself or a very small business.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com