Kei Car
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
The problem is that by the time they're imported and everything else they end up being at least $10k CAD for a 20+ year old vehicle.
I don't want a big pickup truck. They're too big and not as practical. None of the domestic manufacturers make anything reasonably sized. In the 90s my parents got my sister and I a crappy old 84 Ford Ranger and that was totally fine. Nothing that small exists anymore. The new Ford Ranger is a truckosaurus like everything else.
I wish the North American appetite for Canyonero(tm) would stop already.
These days I live in southern Ontario which is about the same as Indiana for climate.
One thing about that old Ford Ranger is that the cab was small and the engine hot and it heated up faster in the winter than any other vehicle I've ever had.
In the mid-south US, those Kei trucks circulate at around $5k right now for "beater" bottom priced ones. $10k would be a decent price for one with "no known issues at the moment".
The "gator / golf cart" things from Polaris, Kubota, etc; jumped up 4 wheeler things, are nibbling at the bottom of that niche too; without ever really getting into a satisfactory fulfillment of it. Them things are the bane of the roads around here, people just assume its ok to tool around the highway with the dogs and kids piled on.
My dad has a Gator on his property and it's pretty meh. He complains about it a lot.
If they had a three point hitch and a PTO like a tractor I'd find them more compelling.
It has horrible gas mileage, but I guess that's offset by pretty cheap repair costs. Parts are abundant. Parking is a real chore.
However, I've wanted to downsize, and one of the these Kei trucks would probably fit our use case 90% of the time. Just more work packing the camping gear and getting a kayak mounted safely.
If it’s older than 25 years on import, you can bypass FMVSS/EPA/DOT regulations, so they are always perfectly legal to drive on the federal highway system (incl. at 70-80mph). Some states will refuse to register them though, such as Minnesota or Oregon.
Separately, some states have an import process for cars newer than 25 years old which allows them to be licensed as UTVs/ATVs, so they can go on local roads but are usually speed limited. And iirc, they can’t drive on federal highways.
Besides that it was a blast to drive, it feels more like an oversized toy than a vehicle.
In Oregon, for example, the DMV arbitrarily refuses to register them for any use whatsoever. It's not a law or regulation, it's more like an internal opinion or rumor that turned into a standard practice of refusal. They'll still happily give you plates and registration for your even smaller and slower Fiat 500, Subaru 360, Isetta, etc. - but if a DMV employee assumes it's an imported Kei car, you're out of luck.
Because it's not a defined rule (despite mentioning it on their website!) even non-Kei Japanese imports are risky to register. Sometimes a DMV employee will see a car they assume is Kei or close enough because it looks funny, and they'll write down the plate number and void the registration later.
If you're a business and register it with your business, that seems to mollify the DMV for some reason. A few Kei pickups and vans with Oregon plates and business logos have been roaming the local streets.
It's also somewhat common to see Kei cars driving around in Oregon from neighboring states. Totally legal for highway use in Oregon, the Oregon DMV just won't register them.
https://www.oregon.gov/odot/DMV/pages/vehicle/vehicletypes.a...
It has it's own section: "Kei Vehicles/Mini-Trucks"
"Many of these vehicles can be imported. They can be titled in Oregon, but cannot get registration because they were not primarily manufactured for U.S. roads or highways."
Perhaps it is still arbitrary, not supported by a specific regulation (but I don't know that). Still, they aren't hiding their unwillingness to register them.
Unfortunately, US fuel efficiency standards killed the small pickup. You can't make them efficient enough to hit the numbers when they're small, so they get bigger. If EV trucks sell, I wonder if we'll get an actually small truck again in the 2nd or 3rd wave; fuel efficiency standards won't matter, but it would need to sell enough to justify a different design.
I'd rather give up cab space than bed space.
Now if they'd only make it with a J1772 plug instead of as a soft hybrid.
Source: owner, and I use one for towing a vehicle trailer.
https://www.ford.de/nutzfahrzeuge-modelle/ford-ranger
A long time ago, I had an 84 S-10, and then an 84 S-10 Blazer. Those were great trucks.
Ford will be manufacturing the Maverick, which seems to be about the size of the older Ranger.
EDIT: also, is there seriously now 4WD/AWD option? That's unfortunately a non-starter for me (though if push came to shove I'd certainly take FWD over RWD).
My dad had a really old Datsun truck. If you wanted small, well that was a good candidate. To this day, I wish he hadn't gotten rid of it!
I'd like a truck like that now. An electric version of the new Ford Maverick would be perfect.
Not mini trucks, not as small as an 84, but they're both still smaller then the current batch of trucks and the base MSRP for the Maverick is $25,900 CAD.
I feel like if I'm going to pay the money for a new vehicle, I'll replace my Volt with an EV truck. But only once there is an option below $45k CAD. Which could be a long time.
Have you looked at ATVs and pseudo-Jeeps like the Mahindra Roxor or the Kioti?
I have a compact tractor, I want something for moving stuff around that is either off-property (compost, manure, lumber, straw bales, etc.) or not suited for tractor/trailer.
I do have an SUV (Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, which is cool cuz it has a 12 amp outlet in the back for powering tools etc) but it can't fit plywood in the back and I wouldn't put dirty stuff in it, cuz it's my wife's :-)
what about a small utility trailer? Cheap as dirt at harbor freight, etc.
Spoiled, am I. This is what happens when you combine a FAANG salary with rural hobbies ;-)
You can also still get old trucks in great shape. Think old Toyota, Rangers, last gen Colorado.. Set aside $300 a year to keep it running, pretty much cheaper than any alternative.
Fast forward to today, and it seems small, and simple to work on.
I was just thinking, if they made the exact same truck, I might buy another Dodge.
I guess they did their homework, and decided Americans want huge trucks?
It's a tough thing to buy aside from vintage. Bummer that these aren't sold in the US (1/2 down the page). Maybe it isn't just lack of demand but also scads of DOT safety standards.
https://www.toyota.com.sa/en/vehicles/commercial/LC70
I've always thought that regular cab shortbed 1/2 tons were the sweet spot, but even those look like semis now.
One can dream.
as far as big consumptive engines, Kei Cars consume around 3-4 Liters/100km
a prius is not that much worse at 4.4 L/100km
It's all kind of moot anyway with EVs coming.
Re: crash safety, I wonder if it's possible to retrofit some extra safety measures on these things?
Is there enough room for batteries for them to have a reasonable amount of range?
That's a good question for any older car. I can think of a number of measures, but it would be interesting to see some real engineering go into retrofits. Besides new/proper seat belts an interesting angle would be a partial roll cage that is safe for a helmetless driver.
I'd love to a have a Kei truck purely for around town (we don't have any traffic lights to give you an idea) in snowy weather. Small = good when the streets shrink due to plowing, small = good for dragging out of a ditch, cheap = good just because it's easy to hurt a car in serious snow.
Mass and/or crumple zones help absorb and deflect energy in crashes. There's no room for a crumple zone in a kei car's perimeter. Smart Fourtwo got close, but those are as wide as a normal car.
And perfectly rigid vehicle is dangerous because it transmits the collision forces to the passengers - high G deceleration will destroy your organs
Keis work in Japan because the average speed is much lower and you're more likely to get into an accident with another kei.
In reality....they are unreliable little shitboxes, and I hate being stuck behind them on a hill, or on the expressway, or saddled with one as a loaner when my daily driver is in a shop for maintenance. They are often geared such that driving one at any speed over 80kph feels like you are risking Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly. Unless it's one of the crazy sporty variants, such as a Suzuki Alto Works or a Suzuki Cappuccino. Those are cool. Oh, and the kei pick-up trucks are very useful little vehicles....probably what half of American pickup truck drivers should have instead of their underutilized monster trucks (F-150, Dodge Ram, etc..).
I disagree with this pretty strongly. While I agree they aren't good above 80, that doesn't equate to them being "unreliable little shitboxes". They're very very reliable (rarely need any maintenance).
Also, everything except expressways have a speed limit of 60, so you can use it no problem. Going up the mountains they can do fine if you rev a bit high, just makes them fuel inefficient.
Not sure where in Japan you've been driving, but my experience is that sticking to the posted speed limit on most roads makes you a hazard to navigation - particularly outside of cities.
Driving at 60km/h on a road where people expect you to drive 80 or 90 just makes people mad and likely to do something stupid.
It is the same in all societies with a working justice system (well maybe not if there's not a working democracy too).
We also require receipt, and there is no shenanigans with speed limits.
It's not reasonable to expect undersized components intended for lightest-duty in-town city driving to hold up very well beyond picking up the dry cleaning, groceries, or driving to a parking lot. If you use it only in that way, it's probably fine. When maintenance becomes required, it's also likely often not worth the money to do any serious overhauls to the lawnmower.
The loaners we've had during shaken are all like 10+ years old and terrible, just as you describe.
Does the wheel jerk, bump steer a ton at that speed?
If you happen to have noticed, how does it handle something like a steel plate (temporarily placed during road work) ?
I have just recently found out about the Subaru Sambar / Daihatsu HiMax microvans and have been very curious. Since I'm unlikely to find an opportunity to test drive a Sambar, I was imagining that these little citycars might be a bit unstable at higher speeds, wet conditions or travelling alongside semi-trailers on CONUS State roads and certainly the Interstate.
A kei truck (with 4WD/AWD) is exactly what I would buy if I could actually register it here in Nevada.
Shows that small cars don’t have to be boring or slow.
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/ctd/d/san-mateo-1996-subaru...
What to tell the wife? Hmmm....
It's a shame. I'd own one in a minute set up for snow days.
https://helpspanish.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-278?language=e...
In Canada, the rule is just 15 years, which is why you’ll see more Keis here
Exactly.
I remember in the DMV regulations that there's a special dispensation for Kei cars that essentially defines Catalina. 'An island over xxx square miles in size' sort of thing.
It used to be big fun here (before they went to 1975 and earlier gasoline engined cars going to not being inspected) if you had a car that was incapable of passing even when new.
I'm actually quite surprised that they don't check date codes on tires and require new seat belts every so many years.
I met a guy at the La Jolla Concours d'Elegance who had imported an ('82?) Trabant. He had gotten it registered with the CA license plate "IRNCRTN". Apparently, Cal DMV saw that it was over twenty-five years old, gave him an exception and the plates, and then demanded that he have it smogged.
A two-stroke Trabant.
I believe he showed the DMV the bottle of oil that he poured into the gas tank after every fillup, and asked them if there was a smog check place willing to hook what is essentially an old lawnmower up to their million-dollar diagnostic apparatus. This seemed to work.
My understanding is that they can't test for NOx without rollers and the smog shops couldn't afford it.
In any case, you'd end up with cases where cars put together by show judges couldn't pass because it didn't match some book. A lot of cars used to have to have crazy gadgets that interfered with spark advance.
All for pass or not pass.
Truth is, I'll bet you could drop the whole system and not see a change in air quality at this point. Super-dirty early cars get a bye (aircooled VW) and late model are rarely modified or worn out. If you feel the need to test, do a good job and then simply charge for the amount of emissions that come out.
I have the feeling that the emissions industry has metastasized into a political power. Not unlike car dealerships.
regarding Kei cars/trucks, my working theory is that most of the objections are safety related. Lots of DOT standards that the rest of the world ignores. Oddly, motorcycles are perfectly legal.
That’s basically what happened in Ontario Canada. They dropped the program because it wasn’t providing any value. New cars would maintain good emissions control for 10 years and beyond that, salt does a good job of destroying cars anyway.
CO2 is a different story with pickups and SUVs. Ultimately, it’s how much you drive and how you drive, and that’s better addressed with gas taxes.
Of course, if you're building a kit car or rebuilding a salvaged car or any number of edge cases, BAR has to certify the vehicle, but for a "normal" car you can get away with almost anything. Bald tires, no seatbelts, windshield wipers falling off, glass smashed up all to hell, wheel bearing so shot it looks like you're driving a paint shaker.
Granted, it's illegal and you could get a ticket for it, but you'll see plenty of smashed up cars with no headlights or bumpers or whatever driving around on the roads in CA. It's just a matter of not running across a police officer who feels like spending the time to ticket you for blatantly illegal (lack of) equipment.
"Only if located on a natural island with an area in excess of 20,000 acres and that is within a county having a population in excess of 4,000,000"
The trick is to have your license in that state, too. Then the CHP can't prove that you're a California resident (at least not during a traffic stop) ;)
A lot of the vehicles you see on Catalina Island, for example, are sold under the LSV rule and also popular as things like campus vehicles.
It’s one of those designs, like the 911, that are still an absolute beast even today.
It’s so simple and right for it’s intended purpose it just doesn’t age.
Or more precisely they’ve been able to evolve the basic concept to keep it competitive.
Smart K is another non-Japanese kei car that's more powerful.
In fact, I'd argue they haven't increased enough—safety tech has improved by leaps and bounds since 1998, and anyone who's been in a modern car compared to a 1998 car can testify that there's much less usable interior space now in a car of the same external dimensions as one from 1998, and you can thank all the extra airbags, crumple zones, etc. that have been introduced since then.
https://abc7news.com/localish/this-fun-sized-fire-truck-conn...
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rEAVLLvk/1989-daihatsu-hije...
Most of the manufacturers I am familiar with are French, and lots of 15 year olds drive them in Sweden.
They have tiny Diesel engines and are limited to two seats, very light weight and max 45kph.
I’m Sweden there is another class of car where you convert a normal sized car into something that is legally a tractor. These can also be driven at 15 years old, and are limited to just 30kph but are much cheaper than moped cars.
Moped cars are very similar to the kei cars that I have seen.
Swedish tractors are something else: I have seen 15 year olds driving Porsche “tractors” in Sweden.
They remind me of kei cars. They aren’t kei cars. The biggest difference apart from two seats is noise; moped cars in Sweden have a weight limit of 350kg and there is zero sound proofing!
There was a case a couple of years back where someone suicidal was driving his Mercedes-Benz van and (according to his statement) thought that the oncoming lights were from a truck and drove towards it. However, it was actually a moped car.
This is what happened to the van: https://is.mediadelivery.fi/img/1920/a659907378c54818bbc915e...
And this is the moped car: https://is.mediadelivery.fi/img/1920/2965ca321c7a47758ca5a81...
Van driver got away with minor injuries, the two youths inside the moped car died instantly.
By my calculations, the horsepower limit, speed limit, emission penalties, and general size, and crash-worthiness requirements already make a 10-15kWh battery pack powered K car surely cheaper than an IC one.
And on top of that. Japanese who have cars drive really, really little, even by standards of similar countries with a lot of big cities close together. (South Korea being the biggest antipod, they really drive around a lot)
Seems like electric makes more sense in places where people are more likely to use their cars for daily commutes
It’s not that all car sales happen in Tokyo (far from it) and there’s a lot of Tesla’s etc, but why buy a car that you would only be able to use for a daily commute and not for trips that go much further than that?
10kwh according to Google gets you like 80km. That’s pretty minuscule and would preclude even short weekend trips.
The fancier is the car, the less people drive it so they can sell it at higher value.
That’s a pretty big assumption. By the time you get to Nagoya (3rd-4th largest city), commuting by car is common and families will have 2-3 vehicles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn-Z5FHXcBA
If you want an NSFW review of the AZ-1 RCR reviewed it a few years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVy1ciP_ik
The claim is that the power electronics modules stacked vertically allows shorter cables to be used, but what I think is interesting is the drawings of a ladder frame car with transmission shaped drive unit and battery pack suspended between frames. A typical Kei delivery van body sits atop all. This looks more optimized for lightweight FF/MF city cars, than other setups like skateboard architectures used in FR EVs or fuel tank shaped batteries in compliance EVs.
1: https://www.j-platpat.inpit.go.jp/c1800/PU/JP-2021-115916/81...
I believe it makes a lot of sense to invert the structure, and place motor behind because they have a solid axle already, and prevent it becoming too rear heavy given it's a cargo van.
I also can't really imagine how power electronics, moreover for such a small car can get so big.
For your second and third point, this is for small, cost efficient delivery vehicles. Consolidating as much active components into an "engine room" and close to driver's seat is likely given higher priority than pursuing driving dynamics. Like if they could cut the cost for brake lights by replacing them with plastic light guides they absolutely will.
FWD EV can't be cheaper than RWD one just for the part count.
I had a 96 Toyota T-100 4WD in Vegas and I loved it. Used to carry a shit ton of wood and building materials with it, and I built a small shelving and storage unit inside the camper shell with a 5gal water tank and a small DIY swamp cooler that ran off a 5v USB fan and water pump powered off a solar charger and battery pack that could keep the temperature down to survivable in there even in the Mojave summer. I used to take her out to BLM land and camp happily in the deep desert.
I do wonder about trying to fit my 6'3" gigantor Texan ass in one of these though.
- 1993 Suzuki Cappuccino Limited: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtWUbEvapRM
- 1991 Honda Beat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_EfLbWlZn4
- 1992 Mazda Autozam AZ-1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBVy1ciP_ik
- 1988 Honda Acty Street Kei Van: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL_T4Lr0uu8
Warning: this channel has a puerile sense of humor. Probably NSFW.
It reminds me a lot of my first car, an early-80's Honda. Tiny engine, almost nothing in the way of luxuries. Basically no sound deadening, and it uses my knees as its front crumple zone.
On the flip side, this thing has the best visibility of any car I've ever driven. Old-school low beltline, and the front of the car is maybe two feet in front of my driving position?
Yes, it's box on wheels, but it's a great box on wheels.
Really does make me sad that heavy regulation (nominally at the behest of the US auto industry) and "cash for clunkers" has driven these out of the market in the US.
However, the ones I see for sale seem to generally be collectors items that come with a scooter.
My first car was a Honda Civic hatchback, not a kei car, but it was <2100 lbs and I noticed once that there was no structure whatsoever adjacent to the rear seats; it was just a cookie-sheet's thickness of sheet metal painted on the outside, a thin bar for mounting the speaker and a plastic cover.
>In 2021, a Latvian-based company Dartz (known for their armoured SUVs) announced a plan to sell the Hongguang Mini EV as the Dartz FreZe Nikrob, with a starting price in certain European countries at around €9,999 and assembled in the EU by Lithuanian company, Nikrob.
On the other side of spectrum, we also have lots of huge lifted trucks ("want ride in lifted yota?"), but usually those are more country side. Closer to town, more kei cars.
Yes, but kids like them. The cheapest car to put an enormous turbo.
Yeah they work great on immaculate Japanese roads, where we usually only kill clutches and maybe transmissions. I would expect Hiluxes and FJ Cruisers to be better suited to Russia but those are typically at a higher price point.
They don't fail as dramatically as weight optimised forged ones. Rather, they can bend, stretch, and tear a bit more gradually, and don't die from a single metallurgic defect
Also can't quite remember but there was something that made Twizy don't qualify as anything. Nissan ran a car sharing "experiment" using Twizy but exemptions had to be made to get plates.
Kei car means: 660 cc engine or less (most likely moot if it's an EV), length 3.4 m or less, width 1.48 m or less, up to 4 passengers, up to 350 kg carrying capacity.
This article shows someone who has one, and note that the license plate is yellow, which means kei car.
https://www.jevc.gr.jp/%E8%88%98%E5%86%85%E7%AB%AF%E3%81%AE%...
> Others: Release schedule and price, as well as vehicle class, license and taxes to be applied remain undecided.
> Q:Where can I buy the vehicle?
> A:The vehicle is not on sale for now. Since the current Road Trucking Vehicle Law bans this vehicle from running on public roads, its test runs in Japan are being conducted with the special permission from MLIT under the scheme of allowing experiments of ultra-compact mobility. Whether the vehicle will be released for sale or not is still unknown.
> Q: The vehicle is said not to be allowed to run on a public road because it's over the spec of the already-defined motorized two-wheeled vehicle therefore no existing vehicle category to apply. What exactly is over the spec?
> A:Under the Road Traffic Act, vehicles that are categorized as the Class-1 Motorized Four-wheeled Bicycle are stipulated to have the rated output of "0.6kW or less" and to be a single-seater. This model’s rated output is 8kW and two-seater (front-back).
1: https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/ZEROEMISSION/APPROACH/NEWMO...
Most of EU, and especially larger, expensive cities have a taste for small cars, and equally so friendlier regulations for them.
Most of the developing world drives Suzukis, no challenge to that. Extremely cost optimised cars, very close to what Toyota did in eighties, but since discontinued.