I wondered (but never did find pictorial evidence) if it might have to do with the common Japanese gesture for "come this way," which, by happenstance, is almost identical to the rest of the world's gesture for "go away."
https://www.tokyoweekender.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/to...
If you had flashed OK hand gesture, would the barman have poured 3 pints, or thought you were a member of a fringe group?
For what it's worth, this hand sign being a hate dogwhistle is pretty much entirely an invention of 4chan.
They set out to transform a symbol, and they succeeded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_gesture#White_power_symbol
If you think it isn't real because it was made up, Vonnegut's Mother Night has you covered: "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be.”
Right now this new 'perception' is pretty limited to a certain US-centric news bubble. Everyone outside that bubble in the US, and generally people everywhere else, are likely to laugh in your face if you tried to convince them the OK gesture is a hate symbol now.
Your average person hasn't even heard of this inane controversy. I for one have to seek out the kind of demographic who thinks that way online - because nowhere else could I even find anyone.
The swastika was a symbol of good luck, the infinity of creation and the unconquered, revolving sun for millennia. Now it's the symbol of the Nazi party and their atrocities. It's not fair, but that's how symbols work. Their meanings can change when new meanings are ascribed to them.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2018/09/18/ok-sign-white...
If a bunch of far-right dipshits want to rally around a cartoon frog and what used to be an innocuous hand gesture, then the meaning of those symbols is going to shift. You're the one playing into their hand. You're the one letting the cryptos remain crypto, instead of illuminating and naming their behavior, for shame.
It's impossible to take these claims seriously. The media will publish anything that gets clicks, no matter how exaggerated or even fabricated, the people making up these claims know they'll get instant coverage and spread their 'cause', and the people spreading the idea that some loser somewhere saying "uh, the middle finger stands for the monolithic purity of the white race" is actually a threat to the fabric of society just enjoy having another thing to be morally panicked by.
He didn't lose his job because of 4chan, but because of ostensibly well-intentioned midwits who believe "4chan succeeded in transforming a symbol" and "fake things can be real". Truly, this type of rationalization is the Bell Curve meme in action.
He was fired because of the reaction -- engineered by 4chan -- of over-intellectualizing social justice nabobs who attend rallies and protests. You guys were literally told the punchline of the joke and still walked right into it.
Obviously the twitter hive-mind went too far in singling this one guy out, and SDG&E colossally fucked up in not doing basic due diligence before firing him. That doesn't change the fact though that there are people out there who do indeed use the hand sign to unironically mean exactly the things that 4chan set out to convince people that it meant. Sticking your head in the sand and pretending otherwise is nothing short of willful ignorance.
The false information that this gesture means anything has everything to do with that man being fired, and contributes absolutely nothing to the awfulness of the Christchurch shooting, but you feel there is somehow an equivalence? Not only that, but you think there's moral superiority afforded to you for making this observation?
https://theintercept.imgix.net/wp-uploads/sites/1/2021/08/08...
The symbol became irresistible to that guy after watching liberals lose their minds at it. If it hadn't bothered the libs, it would have no use to him.
Semantic quibbling over the provenance of the symbol is a distraction from the violent ethos and activities of those who adopted it.
I think you're underestimating lib owning as a motivational factor for these guys.
1. An army supporting the continuation of the enslavement of black peoples.
2. A group (KKK) who would ride out and lynch black people.
3. A very small number of people who fought Nazis.
4. Neo-nazis.
1 out of 4 isn't bad, I suppose...
Not sure why you claim witches aren't real. I know plenty of witches. While they may not be green skinned and fly on broomsticks that melt in water, there are plenty of people that call themselves witches nevermind whatever characture you have in mind.
In this specific case, I think the expected answer is to confirm the number by flashing the same sign. A nod would also work, but be potentially less clear/easier to be missed.
The ok gesture would likely have worked as well, since in France they start counting from the thumb. I don't think the fringe group association is well known in France.
In this situation; as a Frenchy; I would have repeated the count to confirm while nodding. Or waved my hand while shaking my head to refuse.
We may use the OK sign to signify 'au poil' (very fine) most often with pinched lips (mock Italian face).
I'm assuming the V gesture you are referring to is the one that consists of holding up both index finger and middle finger, rather than the one with thumb and index finger.
"I’ve always used the traditional thumb approach (the norm for NZ)."
I also can't imagine anyone (at least in NZ), who would be otherwise inclined to give you a ride, somehow getting irate about it either.
> This origin legend states that English archers believed that those who were captured by the French had their index and middle fingers cut off so that they could no longer operate their longbows, and that the V sign was used by uncaptured and victorious archers in a display of defiance against the French.
I guess that's all the keywords needed in order read the original comment fully.
... It must be somewhat awkward to play Rock Paper Scissors among friends. LOL
See also: how many times I've unconsciously started pumping my own gas when I drive through Oregon even though I "know" not to.
Yeah https://web.archive.org/web/20100611222125/http://biae.clems...
It's hard for me to connect your example of filling gas in Oregon to being reflexively insulted. Is that how you feel in your car, reflexively offended by Oregonian gas stations before your cultural sensitivity has time to resurface? Again, I have to say that I am sure personal differences are strong here, because I don't feel an uncontrollable bodily urge to jump put and fill up the tank within 140-220ms [1] of arriving at a gas station before my consciousness kicks in and I can make decisions again.
[1] From your linked article.
What I found is that there seems to be huge difference in cultures about how offended one can be from language (verbal/non-verbal).
Obviously, perceived threat is a different thing altogether!