Xiaomi Camera censoring German postal voting documents
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https://forums.androidcentral.com/ask-question/912123-photos...
https://www.reddit.com/r/oneplus/comments/4p2ief/pictures_on...
https://forums.oneplus.com/threads/solid-green-photos.453215...
Why would a codec problem, repeatably, affect images of a particular document, but not other images?
You can play around with this yourself in imagemagick:
dd if=/dev/zero of=zero.yuv bs=480 count=240
convert -depth 8 -size 320x240 yuv:zero.yuv green.png
It's true the envelope's closed, but part of the ballot paper is visible through the transparent window.
Should the poster be worried about their smartphone reporting them to law enforcement?
No, it isn't. Go learn about the system they built instead of posting fearmongering lies about it.
edit: It's also a model based scanner so they scan for types of things and similar things instead of explicit copies of things. Which makes it an even more powerful tool for governments than a simple direct scanner.
The only difference is Apple is upfront about what their doing on iCloud where most backup providers are keeping silent.
Edit: iCloud data is specifically called out as available here: https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin...
No, this has never been done before.
>You where already sending your unencrypted phots to Apple
No, I wasn't. The whole point here is that Apple is not scanning server side, they've built the functionality to scan device side. You need never use iCloud in any way whatsoever in order for Apple's new scanning tech to be used against you. That is a major difference.
>Apple and all other service providers are required by US and most other countries laws to do searches on their servers.
No, they are not, even if that was the new thing Apple is doing which it isn't. If a company builds server-side scanning, then they may be required to fulfill certain requirements. But companies are not required to actually do that in the first place even if many choose to do so. Apple already did scan uploaded photos and voluntarily chose not to have E2EE for iCloud data in order to please law enforcement agencies, but that's a voluntary choice by Apple. This new client side scanning is a different beast. Please try to gain even the slightest fucking clue what you are talking about before spouting off on something so important.
Edit: to add for those interested in more details on the law, the federal reporting requirements are under 18 U.S. Code § 2258A [0]. What you'll see there is a "Duty To Report", and the reason for that is to evade Constitutional protections. If the government compelled companies to scan, as well as any legal challenges (by very well funded actors) and public blow back, as a practical matter those companies would become State Actors for the purposes of 4th Amendment evaluation. However, even if it's heavily incentivized so long as it's "voluntary" courts have repeated ruled that 3rd parties can do searches that would be illegal for the government, turn discovered evidence over to the government who in turn may then use it freely. Walter v. United States (1980, [1]) is a good example, covering the [righteous and just prosecution] of someone transporting "films depicting homosexual activities" after it was mailed to the wrong address and turned over to the FBI which I'm sure everyone here on HN would applaud and definitely is what they have in mind when they think of client side scanning in the US. Tim Cook is carrying on that tradition with Pride no doubt.
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False. Apple complies with the laws pertaining to customer data and provides data as legally required. III. Information Available from Apple
J. iCloud
https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin...
> You need never use iCloud in any way whatsoever in order for Apple's new scanning tech to be used against you.
False. Phones don’t download the CSAM hashes so they can’t do device side scanning as they have nothing to compare the images to. Yes, the phone uploads a hash, but they also upload the unencrypted images along side it.
Thus the only thing that changes is Apple isn’t paying for the compute power to do the hashing. That and a tiny amount of extra bandwidth on uploading images.
PS: In response to your edit, perceptual hashes are a grey area. However, as long as a judge agrees they can very much just take down production systems when it pertains to a case. That’s a rather big stick to force compliance even if it’s not an explicit law it’s very much a consequence of it. Thus companies really don’t push back as some that have simply got raided.
>False.
No, TRUE. Apple announced TWO difference technologies. The first one is specifically for completely independent machine learning client-side scanning of all messages. From Apple's own announcement:
>First, new communication tools will enable parents to play a more informed role in helping their children navigate communication online. The Messages app will use on-device machine learning to warn about sensitive content
Which has been clarified to mean any and all sexually explicit material, and then notifies the parents. Apple is billing this as only for child accounts and only to parents, but that is merely a set of flags and directions in the programming not anything inherent to the system. It could be applied to any ML model at all and the notifications sent to anyone at all. The system is now built and ready for governments to compel Apple to use for other things in complete violation of device owner's rights, backed by Apple's total ownership of device root.
The second feature is the one for client-side scanning of all photos uploaded to iCloud for illicit content using "neuralhash" which is subject to collisions as have already been repeatedly generated and received lots of discussion here as well as elsewhere (ie., [0]). That is claimed to be initially aimed at uploads and CSAM only, not that there is any way to be sure, but again same thing: the system now exists to perform arbitrary fuzzy scans on-device whether someone is uploading elsewhere or not.
This is absolutely new and horrible capability. If you upload something unencrypted to somebody else's property, as well as the law there is a reasonable common sense understanding that you're depending upon their good will and that they may be compelled at that point without having to involve you. "Possession is 9/10 of ownership" and all that, regardless of details. Now one's own personal private property will have built-in locked down systems to scan all your data based on arbitrary third party choices.
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Parental controls can also be setup to track kids real time position, such tracking is invasive but that’s what the people buying the phones want. It’s a much larger stretch to say Apple is going to suddenly enable that and track every user in real time for example even though they 100% could.
Anyway, it’s all just code, every device with over the air updates has the exact capacity you fear. As it stands no it doesn’t do what you’re worried about. It could after someone builds as system to do more than just detect porn, but that was true of the original iPhone.
So, I get the concern but if that’s what you’re worried about you should be equally concerned for every other device that can be updated without your consent.
This is the kind of FUD I keep calling out. Your position "it doesn't matter what they actually built, because I can fantasise a completely different system". Do you not see a massive gaping problem with that reasoning - to whit, it could apply to literally everything with the same predictive power? iTunes music match could look for any media, therefore it does. iOS update could install malware, therefore it does. Smartphone microphones could be listening, therefore they are. iOS and Android could send your GPS location back to head office even if you flick the software switch telling it not to, therefore they do. Apple pushed a U2 album onto your device, therefore they will push pro-China MP3 lectures onto your device and you will be forced to hear them.
It's bad (low quality) reasoning done in bad faith.
> "The system is now built and ready for governments to compel Apple to use for other things in complete violation of device owner's rights, backed by Apple's total ownership of device root."
Which they have said they won't do. Of course "facts don't matter, my fantasies are more real" is your position again.
>Which they have said they won't do.
What the hell? Apple just won't comply with governments using force against them? How in your magic world do you imagine them doing this? If China says "you will add this specified model to your detection or else we will kill iPhone production" what exactly do you imagine Apple is going to do? Apple has already caved there, repeatedly, such as with iCloud data itself. Or if the USA points out, correctly, that while it can't compel Apple to create something from scratch it is on much stronger ground to compel Apple to use capability it already has and successfully wins that now what? They're just going to defy the US Government and the feds will just shrug and say "oh nevermind jodrellblank already said on HN Apple won't do that"?
You throw around "bad faith", "FUD", and "fantasies are more real" and then just outright accept Apple saying "they won't do" something which equates to defying government. This is not going to strike anyone actually grounded in reality as a particularly "fact based" bit of reasoning on your part.
I didn't say Apple won't do that, I said "Apple said they won't do that". I'm not making a claim of what will happen, I'm reporting a fact of what Apple said, which was this:
"“We have faced demands to build and deploy government-mandated changes that degrade the privacy of users before, and have steadfastly refused those demands. We will continue to refuse them in the future.”" and "“Let us be clear, this technology is limited to detecting CSAM stored in iCloud and we will not accede to any government’s request to expand it.”"[1]
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/09/apple-will-reject-demands-to...
Scanner firmware won't scan currency, even if doing so is legal.
But if it was, I would suggest using a different phone. Maybe a fairphone running /e/ - that's my setup, with almost exclusively open source software. I can recommend it.
Which, if the same sort of case here, makes the CCD(s) on the phone here particularly impressive.
But could of course be a special change in this Xiaomi model :-)
The german postal voting documents do, with 99,9% certainty, not include any EURion constellations (---and they have no window, the return address is printed directly on the envelope--- EDIT: they do in cologne! See [1], last image, sorry for the misinformation). Wouldn't make much sense, as the envelope is thrown away immediately and the inner letter (which is not the ballot) contains a unique number per postally voting citizen that's not trivialy guessable.
They are however made from non-bleached (only coloured) recycling paper, so maybe the camera is picking up some artifacts from the different visible paper fibers?
Also can I put those dots in any picture/document to mess with cameras/editing software? Or is there more than those few dots to it? Would be kinda useful for public images, to at least annoy some stalkers, impersonators and other creeps. Doing this all over the place could also really support open source projects like GIMP!
https://xiaomi.eu/community/threads/sensor-problem-and-green...
https://xiaomi.eu/community/threads/mi-10-ultra-camera-issue...
Is Xiaomi stock camera known for censoring certain documents?
They have:
- The strings "Entgeltfrei im Bereich der Deutschen Post" (free shipment in Germany), "Wahlbrief" (postal voting document), "An <address of your local election office>"
- The name of the manufacturer and an order number for the envelope (which is identical on all envelopes), "Fachverlag Jüngling-gbb, Bestell-Nr 109 024 9319 099"
- Two fields that are filled out by hand (with a pen) by the election office before sending them to the citizen, "Wahlscheinnummer" (serial number) and "Stimmbezirk" (polling station)
They have not changed in the last... 30 years? :-)
I don't think any of that could trigger a barcode library :-D
EDIT: This is not true for all postal voting documents in all German municipalities, every municipality can order their own postal documents from several sources (or even print their own), but the specific envelope with the "green image problem" still does not contain a barcode, as seen in the last image the user posted: https://imgur.com/a/SCHGo4N
A feature like this (properly implemented) could actually be great for those countries.
The slippery slope argument still applies of course.
Xiaomi might be using an ML detector to figure out it is looking at something that resembles an official document, and refusing to take a picture of it.
But what a quirk, a real life object causing issues in software.
Maybe it's as simple as flash memory corruption on the guy's phone, the photo of mostly table and just the edge of the envelope is "simpler" (lots of the table which is just white), so maybe it takes less space. The more complicated photo would take more storage space, what if it's hitting a bad block or a period of bad blocks because of the physical memory layout (e.g. a sequence of bytes every 4MB is bad).
Your explanations appear less likely, as I’d expect those types of bugs to show differently.