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Comment by loco5niner | Hacker News Reader

If you are using a compost toilet right next to your neighbor, you are being a bad neighbor.

Have you ever smelled a compost toilet? (It stinks up an entire area) I certainly don't want to be smelling your composting poo while I'm sitting on my back porch eating dinner (or worse, while sitting in my dining room eating dinner with the windows open).

If you want to do that, move out to the country(rural areas) where you have space.

Your freedoms end where they infringe on others freedoms. Because some people don't understand that (or don't care), governments step in and say "You can't do that".

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> If you are using a compost toilet right next to your neighbor, you are being a bad neighbor.

I guess you're not familiar with modern composting toilets.

They have become very popular replacement heads (toilets) in small boats, for instance. Where the toilet and composting container is often within inches of your sleeping area due to very limited space. Smell is a non-issue even in such tight quarters.

A land-based neighbor dozens of feet (or more) away stands no chance of smelling anything.

My old next door neighbor had a compost toilet and I didn't notice any smell, even inside of it. I also stayed at an AirBnb with one that didn't smell. I'm sure they can smell awful but it certainly depends.

I imagine it's similar to a yard waste compost pile. If it's not done right the smell can get pretty bad, but a proper one should have little to no problem with smell.

Anecdotes are not why the regulation would exist. The majority of people can do things the right way, but it's always the outliers and bad (lazy?) actors for which the regulation needs to exist for.

Regulation exists to prevent doing things the bad way, not to prevent doing things altogether.

Everything will be banned once someone does it the bad way, because there aren't enough resources to determine each case on an individual basis.

Nothing in the previous comments contradicts that.

Only it's entire spirit and the context under which it was placed...

Regulations may only exist to avoid the "wrong way", they must not be there to impede a "right way". It is illegitimate to fight the "right way".

> Have you ever smelled a compost toilet? (It stinks up an entire area)

That's false. Composting toilets can easily be odor free.

Also, to round out your treatise on freedoms you really need to mention that serious problems can be posed by poorly maintained or designed septic systems, holding tanks, and municipal sewage treatment facilities (beyond offensive odors). To boot, our habit of using clean drinking water to transport urine and feces is simply ... wasteful.

I have - if it's done properly, with the right separation of pee/poop and ventilation and the drying out of solid matter, it hardly smells. Faintly of manure, basically.

I believe it. I'd rather not roll the dice on getting a neighbor that will do it right though.

presumably the same rules that you trust for neighbors to work on their own plumbing/landscaping and preventing runoff into your yard, for example, would apply here.

I think the issue is that with slightly bigger lots and/or city services meant to alleviate these problems (sewage lines), much of what might be problems is smoothed over. Often there are laws about setbacks from property edges for dwellings, which may or may not apply to a structure which is not meant to be a dwelling. By skirting the rules or using a loophole, people may in some instances find why those rules were put in place in urban areas (i.e. where people live closely together).

I am not sure I actually want a lot of details but I am too curious not to ask.

> with the right separation of pee/poop

How does one do this logistically? Does this mean a compost system where you have two distinct toilets/containers for each of those bodily functions?

The ones I've seen have a slanted pedal-powered conveyor belt inside the bowl. Liquids run down to the front, and then you pump the pedal a few times to crank the solids to the back.

Think of it from the other side (with levity): "I am using a composting toilet, which is using less energy/infrastructure overall than say what happens to everyone elses poop (it gets flushed and then composted). I feel good about this poop situation. More importantly, I am following the local codes for composting safely and I'm generating safe compost, which I can then use on certain things in the garden, which is better than purchasing compost or fertilizer."

Help me understand why you think you have a Freedom to Smell Nice Things? If you were to file a nuisance complaint for "bad smell next door" (the action one can take in my locality), would you base it on this so-called freedom? If this person is following codes/guidelines for composting, wouldn't you be the Karen in the situation? Does this difference in lifestyle - your viewing the neighbor composting as a "bad neighbor" - come down to differing values?

IMO, this Freedom to Smell Nice Things does not exist. Cities smell, sometimes good, sometimes bad. Suburbs too - my suburb offers no compost service, and everyone's garbage composts in city-provided bins...it stinks. You suggested going rural, but that seems a romantic notion - the winds are your neighbors and the smell can often be worse than the city depending on where you are located.

> Help me understand why you think you have a Freedom to Smell Nice Things

"... certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" - US Constitution (enormously grateful for the sacrifices made to keep those freedoms)

You are right that it comes down to different values. I choose to live where these things are enforced, and you can choose, if you wish, to live where they are not.

I do like the sound of [parts] your first paragraph, where people are responsible about how they spread their poo on their garden right next to my garden... however, consider that same situation with an irresponsible (or ignorant) peerson spreading their poo on their garden right next to your garden. Considering how rain and water flow works, you have a not-unlikely possibility of ingesting their poo (and enjoying whatever diseases follow).

I'm glad poo-handling is regulated.

> certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

That is quite a stretch. As an American I'm rolling my eyes :)

I guess I'm still not understanding how a composting neighbor is a bad neighbor? I'm not arguing against enforcing correct composting, I'm simply trying to understand why your comment makes it seem like any type of composting makes someone a bad neighbor? If your argument is that participating in a regulated activity (composting here) and not following guidelines (dumping ill-prepared compost on the ground), well that seems obvious - there are lots of regulated activities we participate in daily!

In trying to understand the "bad neighbor" comment, I sought out my local government's guidance. Where I live - highly dense county with a major city - the local government has a recommendation on their website to "Consider installing a composting toilet that converts human waste to nutrient-rich fertilizer for non-food plants and uses little to no potable water for flushing." which to me implies being a good neighbor (https://kingcounty.gov/depts/dnrp/solid-waste/programs/green...).

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