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Comment by vbtemp | Hacker News Reader

I made a fairly popular reddit post recently on how I down-leveled my career in recent years. Each time I down-level, I get a raise in salary -- it's pretty great.

What that permitted me to learn about myself is that - at the end of the day - I just like solving interesting and challenging problems, working with colleagues as equals, and creating products and solutions that I'm proud of. I have utterly no interest any more in climbing any sorts of ladders, or "chasing" a role, position, or title because I think that'll somehow be the road to riches. Having autonomy, the flexibility to work when I'm productive and inspired (and to not work when not), and interesting/meaningful work is infinitely more important than role or salary. I also feel like I'm not the first person to come to this conclusion.

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I mean at the end of the day the title is only to feed your own ego. At family gathering nobody's gonna ask you why you were Principal and now you're Staff. I find no difference between being called a "Director" or a "Manager", because the title alone tells me absolutely nothing

Reminds me of American Psycho, where everybody is a damn Vice President (reflective of the time)

> Reminds me of American Psycho, where everybody is a damn Vice President (reflective of the time)

Reflective of the industry, really. It’s still that way in banking.

Vice President has legal meaning as a title. Only a vice president or above can make some loans. Since banks make those loans all the time they need a lot of vice presidents to do it. In a small town bank with at most 10 people it makes sense, but for a large banks with branches all over the country you end up with a ton of vice presidents just for that need, but they don't really get any other authority.

Interesting. I always wondered why Senior level engineers at banks got the VP title. It seemed odd for someone formerly an IC to suddenly step into a VP level role, but this makes sense now.

but does it? are these software engineers actually making loans?

No, but there are people at that level in the company who need to sign those contracts (I don't think it's loans specifically), and it's easiest to use a consistent title for everyone at that level.

My Father-in-law is a VP at a banking firm, he's just a senior engineer, but he does handle plenty of financials. Makes total sense why he's a VP.

> Reminds me of American Psycho, where everybody is a damn Vice President (reflective of the time)

My understanding was that this still happens as a way to get around corporate card policies (either from the company or the credit company) that prevent anyone with a lower-than-leadership title from having signature power for purchasing. Want to give someone a corporate card so they can buy their own necessities? Give them a VP title.

I’m not sure that’s true, I had a company credit card when I worked at Oracle and I was just a grunt sys-admin.

> get around corporate card policies

This isn't true for tech companies (except maybe the antiquated ones). At my current firm, everyone got a corp card on request.

At my company everyone beyond intern is expected to have one, just in case we get sent on a trip.

It's more complex than that, though. If you're meeting with people outside your company, your title can influence how they see you. If you're meeting with a bunch of "Director" level people and you're a "Senior", they may treat you as a lesser member of the group. This can be impactful to your ability to accomplish your goals within that group at times.

That may be true, but definitely not in my experience. I have included my job historically on emails eg: Software Engineer but never my level. I don't even put that on internal emails because I see it as my business and no one else's. This includes when I worked side by side with sales folks from time to time at a start up. If you didn't feel like working with me if I was a SWE I but you feel like it with a Principal, why would I want to work with you?

People do care that someone will show up and answer all their questions in a thorough and non-elitist (read: talking over people's heads) way.

I think your experience is fairly characteristic of software developers. However, there's a lot of other segments out there where title comes into play a lot heavier; where it caries weight in the same way experience does.

It's probably also worth noting that title can impact pay when it comes to a job; a lot of companies have pay caps based on title.

Really, my point was that title is more than just self-gratification.

idk to me salary determines the level. you can't really "down level" when you get paid more. titles doesn't matter. I know for a fact a lot of people with "manager" are paid significantly less than me with my bland title, but it lets everyone sleep at night so all is well.

All the things you mentioned important to you are indeed important stuff, and you are not wrong to prioritize them. But that doesn't mean you should completely ignore the title. Think of the title as giving you more freedom to choose. By completely ignoring, you are potentially missing the extra freedom you can have in choosing your problem and team. So, I would agree you don't want to chase a title, but as a secondary nice-to-have goal, it absolutely is worth considering.

Haha, I tried to do this and it was working great until I got sacked.

A link to the reddit post would benefit an audience like me

https://www.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/comments/nnw7yd/sob...

It's a little cheeky and at times a little hyperbolic, but I stand by it.

I agree with every single point

Mostly agree, but how about a person (lets say like me) who would like to offer skills in exchange for a great salary and thats it? No need for challenging problems, just the autonomy and time - thats what I would care about the most (and € ofc). Personal motto: work for living, not live to work. Therefore: screw those titles.

While I fully agree with your sentiment, are you by any chance privileged white male?

Quote from TFA "For those in an underrepresented group, titles make a world of difference in establishing credibility."

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