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Comment by hmm320 | Hacker News Reader

How does one know if their clothing is PFAS-free if it doesn't specifically say?

If your clothing is waterproof or has some kind of exercise "moisture wicking" material, it is common to have PFAS.

An absurd challenge: walk to into a target or some other large retail store and try to find mens briefs that do not have moisture wicking treatment.

It feels like I'm in a strange dystopia trying to find undergarments not treated with some sort of PFAS additives.

Me too but for undershirts! I didn’t see your comment before making mine.

This is really strange - I’m in Germany and I hear for the first time that underwear is treated like this.

None of the brand I wear (HOM) seem to be and I don’t remember that being mentioned on any pack of underwear I purchased the last 40 years.

Is it an US thing?

(and yes, I’m posting about my underwear on hacker news. weird.)

It is strange! It's a recent thing in the US, yes. Probably in the past 4-5 years nearly all major brands put some sort of special chemical that gives it 'moisture wicking' (usually in partnership with Dow or 3M).

Maybe it’s only in sports apparel over here?

I just bought some new underwear from Marks & Spencer in the UK which has their "Cool & Fresh" treatment. I haven't worn it yet but this thread is putting me off.

M&S publish a Manufacturing Restricted Substances List [1] for their suppliers, which seems to ban the use of all per- and poly-fluorinated chemicals in the manufacture of textiles for them.

Either I'm misunderstanding, or some of these underwear treatments don't involve PFAs. Who knows what they use instead?

[1]: https://corporate.marksandspencer.com/documents/plan-a-our-a...

Wicking materials don't use PFAS (although see edit below). The properties that PFAS endows a fabric are pretty much of the opposite of what you need for wicking. Wicking fabrics such as Capilene and polypropylene must be wettable in order to work. PFAS reduces the wettability of fibers. That's its whole point.

PFAS is used in nearly all current water resistant fabrics, including clothing, upholstery, and carpet. The industry calls these Durable Water Resistant (DWR) treatments.

PFAS-free treatments are only just recently hitting the market, but there are only a few so far and they're expensive. The North Face's Futurlight, Helly Hanson's Lifa are the only ones I know by name, but I've heard that Marmot and Mountain Hardware have some PFC-free garments as well.

EDIT:

I searched "PFAS wicking" and I see a some underwear makers are claiming their DWR treated products have enhanced wicking properties. This is confusing marketing. The DWR isn't actually enhacing the wicking. Rather, it's keeping the surface of the fabric that's next to the skin dry, while the untreated bulk of the fabric wicks moisture away. This is sort of like the thin perforated polyethylene membrane used in Band Aids to keep the would dry and prevent adhesion of the dressing.

Nevertheless, it appears we now have to be wary of forever chemicals in our underwear. Lame.

Waxed canvas is also waterproof and free of questionable chemistry and is delightful.

I agree. My favorite hat is oilcloth, and it's as waterproof as any fancy modern gear.

I’ve put off buying a sleeping bag from REI because of DWR. I like to sleep outside as much as I can, and when temps are freezing a well-insulated bag is great. I’ve switched to wool blankets for now. I’m also more and more okay with going without various comforts; the cost of having whatever I want is too high.

Wool is badass. How do you feel about the extra weight?

I tried to buy new Hanes or Fruit of the Loom undershirts and literally couldn’t find any that didn’t have their proprietary coating.

sigh. that's all the undershirts i have.

i'm "sure" (/s) that the chinese competitors on amazon are sooo much better.

I'm so tired of having to anaylze every fucking product i bring into my home and expose myself, my wife and my kid to.

I'm tired of being "that guy" to my wife too.

It's endlessly frustrating

Yes! Let’s start an underwear company!

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