The PineNote is an e-ink notebook that runs Linux
tuxphones.com
tuxphones.com
Not only that, but I've been blown away by the ongoing results from the team at Remarkable. I only have the Remarkable 1 but they continue to ship updates for it, and these updates are often really substantive with sometimes profound new features. Their cloud service is free, no aggravating subscription stuff and even though they have the remarkable 2 now, they continue to kill it with the updates to improve my experience with the remarkable 1. They, as of right now, have my undying loyalty and appear to be a truly customer focused company. I'd love to buy their entire team a couple beers.
Don't get me wrong, I love pine64 too, but they're way more oriented to us hacker types than ordinary people and I don't want to have to hack together a functioning device with everything I own, though I think they're doong good work none-the-less.
There is also an opkg-based package manager and repo with many packages: https://toltec-dev.org/
Remarkable 2 requires a bit of parts and possibly soldering (but not required, just might make things easier if you don't have pogo pins with handles available).
Both are fully recoverable unless you do something really impressive.
really impressive like what?
If you follow these steps and you know a bit about linux you'll be fine.
Factory reset on the rM2 will mess with the community framebuffer service and reset your root password, effectively locking you out unless you go the fiddly way over the external port.
The rM1 is very resilient as you can directly access the internal storage without special tools.
Why do you say connecting over the external port is "finicky"?
I'd love to get work done in sunny locations, like gardens. But these LCD screens make me squint. e-ink would be THE solution to this, but the e-ink displays are too expensive, to well supported and not very big.
But yes, it works as an external screen. Check out VNSee for this https://github.com/matteodelabre/vnsee
Maybe the rM1 might be the best choice for this. I'm not sure...
The rM2 is a lot trickier. A full reverse engineering of the drawing routines is still unfinished, as far as I know. So you either manipulate the memory of their closed source application or reuse big binary chunks of it. There are of course abstraction layers built over that by the community but as of today I believe it's much less refreshing than the rM1.
The rM1 used the chip electrophoretic display controller directly , while the rM2 has a software controller which is closed source. Hence much of the complications
I have a folder full of startup ideas. I really want a Lean Canvas page template to go with that (and be able to mix page types in a single notebook would be cool, but I'm not sure that's possible yet).
I want to create a "meeting notes" type of notebook, that automatically adds today's date, and lives in a "meeting notes" folder organised by date.
I'd love to be able to sketch in white on a black background.
I keep meaning to get around to learning how to do this stuff... but life has been getting in the way. Doesn't mean I don't want to ;)
Kobo is pretty similarly hackable to the Remarkables but they are not nearly as open and free as the Pine stuff. I take a look at what remarkable has updated, and they just still haven't gotten ePub support anywhere close to where it should be. I belive it technically converts ePubs to PDF and displays that?? With large books taking minutes to change font sizes. That to me has completely turned me off their devices. Writing may be better but reading is IMO equally important for devices like these.
Wow you're right (at least until this year?): https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Kobo_Firmware_Releases
The Mk3 is the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobo_Touch released 10 years ago.
Do you not use it at night or do you use some other solution for nighttime lighting (like bright ceiling lights)?
If the use case is just reading at night, a Kindle with a backlight is probably a better bet.
That said - I like the Remarkable a lot more, and tend to carry it with me more. The kindle has essentially just become my "vacation" reading device since I stopped taking the train for work.
It definitely doesn't need bright lights to read (well, depending on your eyesight). If I want to read/write before bed, I'll keep my side table light on at 25%, and it works fine. If my wife is still watching a show, the tv alone is bright enough I can generally read/write fine.
But it hasn't replaced my e-reader. I read myself to sleep every night, and 80% of mornings wake up with the e-reader lying on the pillow next to me. If I tried that with the Remarkable I'd smack myself in the face every night. I have a hand-size e-reader (Tolino, a German brand) with a backlight, which I use in dark mode so less light to keep the gf awake. Works great.
I could see myself reading a technical manual on the Remarkable, but I'd still need the e-reader. Two different use cases.
source: https://remarkable.com/blog/inside-remarkable-2-chapter-2-th...
I have a Remarkable 2, and I really enjoy it, but it's more like an upgraded replacement for the legal pad/notebook I would carry around at work.
It does notes and sketches really well. But there's no browser by default on the device. I appreciate it, since it keeps me focused on what I'm doing without distractions (like HN :D ).
If they were to add a simple plugin system, that would take them 0 effort with Qml, it would be significantly better.
There is also an opkg-based package manager and repo with many packages: https://toltec-dev.org/
The binary patching that you talk about is only one mod that can be installed to improve the functionality of the original GUI. It is true that it would be awesome if that had plugin support, as you stated, though.
Extracted? Last time I look at it, they were inserting a patch in the main (and only) binary of the proprietary GUI via LD_PRELOAD, and then all other programs which wanted to draw _anything_ to the screen would basically _directly alter the memory_ of the proprietary GUI binary in order to modify its internal framebuffer. You have to do that whether you want to integrate with the main GUI or not -- since you need this hack to draw anything to the screen.
Literally every other Remarkable update so far has killed all of this.
> Most components are FOSS.
The usual thing: most 3rd party components which they are forced to open anyway are FOSS. Anything that may even be remotely interesting is NOT FOSS. I do not understand why people try to claim this as a positive, cause it isn't.
On rM1 it was possible to write to the framebuffer directly, on rM2 it is not exposed as a device file directly.
> To do their job, both the client and the server need to know the address at which a number of functions reside in the Xochitl binary. These addresses change from one release to the next.
This is absurdly fragile. In fact, it's even worse than I was guessing :/.
I'm still very happy with the device but I'll keep that in mind when recommending it to others.
Also I don't worry about updates. Why would I connect my notebook to the Internet anyway? I just don't install them.
I guess it's a matter of time before fully open source display drivers are available and I can do my part too to make it happen.
When it happens I will have an ownable very nice, thin and responsible e-notebook. It will never be connected to the Internet and I will patch it myself if I will happen to want a new feature.
Maybe you are right and it could be more FOSS than it is, but in a world where you don't really own anything valuable anymore I am so elated about the hackability of this device that I'll take a bit of tinkering with binary files.
The thing that worries me is that they are launching a lot of products. They are all adjacent in some ways.
But, should I as a customer, or Pine as a company, be worried about the cost of supporting all these different kinds of devices?
I recall reading a long time ago that Google intentionally offers products where they can get away without offering support from a real person. That's obviously not true anymore but many of their products are entirely self supported (or GTFO...). The obvioys reason is that support is so incredibly costly and you never recoup a penny of that cost because it only happens after the purchase is made in most cases.
Is this the true brilliance of Pine, that they've created a community of people around them that are willing to help get all these products to the next level and they can avoid this costly facet of any organization? Or, is this a fatal mistake that will kill Pine?
I'm super excited about all their products and some of them will undoubtedly sit in my closet after the initial use. But, is that ok for the second wave of users who will demand something better?
My theory is that they view themselves as the hardware people, not the makers of consumer devices. They follow an "if we build it they will come" approach. They have dipped a toe in consumer-facing stuff but the bulk of their stuff is "we make the open hardware, let the software people figure it out and support it, etc." I'm very comfortable with that, especially given that it allows them to make things really affordable (which IMHO is a super important aspect). It especially seems as though Manjaro is answering the call. I know there are some Fedora community members that are as well.
As far as the hardware, their support generally only extends as far as defective hardware. Think DOA battery/display/etc. If a particular revision of a device has a hardware bug, but is otherwise functional, they will tend to fix the bug in a future revision. Customers bothered by a given bug typically have to buy a future revision if it really bothers them. For example, I got the first public version of the Pinephone which has a USB-C bug that only works with dumb chargers. The next revision of the Pinephone fixed that bug and they offered a discounted board replacement for those bothered by the bug.
Their main target customers are (hardware and software) hackers who should understand what they're signing up for.
It's still kind of slow in practice, like all e-ink. Page turns will take longer than a tablet or of course a book.
It comes with a stylus, but the only note-taking app that works well with it is the built-in one, which is not great though at least it can sync your notes off the device. But standard Android apps that support pen input are unusable.
If you want to read PDFs on an e-ink screen, I think this is probably the best option. You need a much larger screen than Kindles have of course, and the Android ecosystem has some ok apps for PDFs and comics (the Boox has a decent PDF reader but I'd suggest using a different app that syncs).
When it comes down to it, though, I've never really been happy with e-ink. Tablets are just so much faster and more versatile, and for reading in the sun and so forth I'd rather just take a book.
Really cool to see a cheap e-ink android device but bummer that the company isn't compliant with the licenses of the open source software it uses.
[0] - https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/hl09g7/onyx_boox_chi...
[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23735962
[2] - https://linustechtips.com/topic/1331748-shortcircuit-showcas...
I wasn't trying to replace built-in note taking app, I think I may have gotten used to it? Honestly at this point I quite like it; it's fast (seriously, there is 0 lag when talking notes), it's capable and it honestly works just fine. I love the UI. I totally understand why you would want to replace it with one note or something like that - I'm just saying that current version works for me :).
I don't trust it yet however - I am using Onyx's sync servers, so my content is backed up without encryption to someone's else servers... Since we are talking about syncing - it also works with syncthing without any special integration; my notes are backed up immediately as pdfs on my other devices.
It is slow, if you think of it as a tablet. There are few options in "app optimizations" menu that allows you to switch between ghosting and page refresh speed.
I'm not sure if you can root it / if the bootloader is unlocked.
I'm using it with different stylus - the one from boox max - it doesn't have that magnetic lock, but it's larger and it feels like stylus tip has lower friction on the display.
From a general SaaS product perspective, your product comes down to the value of the data you provide, and the best possible user experience is in fact an API (imo), which customers integrate into their own systems, and it just sticks there and generates revenue. If you can develop a SaaS that works on an e-ink display, that's valuable data. It's choosing and solving for an arbitrary constraint, which is inferior to just finding out what people want and making it for them, but it requires us to build a meaningful tool instead of just another dazzling representation. In terms of refining ideas, that it should work in lynx could be an interesting enhancment to the creative process.
If you’re looking to buy a PineNote in the first batch, you must expect to write software for it, not to write notes on it. The software shipping from the factory for the first batch will not be suitable for taking notes, reading e-books, or writing your dissertation [...]
Edit: It looks like tuxphones is the one calling it a notebook. Pine 64 never calls it a notebook on their site. It's named PineNote, but it's marketed as an "e-ink device" that may be a non-functional prototype on delivery. From their press release: It may not even boot to a graphical environment.
This is pretty much how all Pine devices ship, and they’re up front about it. They’ve always been very explicitly that the Pine devices aren’t meant to be fully formed consumer devices and that it’ll take quite a bit of elbow grease and community effort to make the most out of the hardware.
I daily drive Pinephone, Pinetime, and am keen to get my hands on the PineNote.
More open hardware please! :)
Its hardware specs are much worse but it's thinner at 4.7 mm.
I appreciate this new product but if it were dependent on me I would have invested in color eInk instead of powerful CPU with an NPU. I guess the build on the community providing a nice environment and handwriting recognition (otherwise I cannot explain the NPU)
I find it pretty unfortunate, because E-Ink really, really shines in terms of battery life and readability, and I think the current fees are leaving the tech only in niche and high end markets.
"E-Ink licensing"?
Tell us more.
> I think the current fees are leaving the tech only in niche and high end markets.
What are the current fees?
Your format and incredibly late reply make me think you're asking some sort of "Gotcha" question here, and I have no idea why.
see:
About E Ink
E Ink is the recognized leader and innovator in electronic ink technology, with over 600 U.S. patents, and 1,374 worldwide patents. E Ink continues to aggressively fund and place corporate priority on innovation, invention, and the *defense of its extensive intellectual property holdings*.
E Ink Corporation was spun out from MIT’s Media Lab in 1997 to commercialize electronic ink and electronic paper display (EPD) technology. In 2009, E Ink Corporation was purchased by Prime View International (PVI), a leading small and medium sized TFT-LCD and EPD provider. PVI was later renamed E Ink Holdings, Inc.
E Ink Holdings Inc. (8069.TWO) is now the world's largest supplier of EPD displays to the eReader market. It has transformed and defined the eReader market and is redefining the signage, architecture and design, mobile, wearable and retail markets with its ePaper technology, enabling a new multi-billion dollar market in less than 10 years. Its corporate philosophy aims to deliver revolutionary products, user experiences, and environmental benefits through advanced technology development. This vision has led to its continuous investments in the field of ePaper displays as well as expanding the use of its technologies into a number of other markets and applications, including smart packaging and fashion. Its EPD products make it the worldwide leader for ePaper. Its Fringe Field Switching (FFS) technologies are a standard for high-end LCD displays and have been licensed to all major liquid crystal display makers in the world. E Ink Holdings is listed in Taiwan's Taipei Exchange (TPEx) and the Luxembourg market. For more information please visit www.eink.com.
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Edit - I see from your other replies this is clearly intended as a "gotcha" question, but I think you're incorrect in your assumption that volume is the problem. I'd argue that much like 3d printing, the issue is not really costs, but rather patents and licensing... as I clearly alluded to above.
For comparison, Amazon alone is shipping 20+ million EPD products a year through kindles. Most LCD TV manufacturers ship around the same volume, and the industry total is only around 200 million. see: https://www.statista.com/statistics/668519/lcd-tv-shipments-...
Basically - I'm claiming your argument is bullshit. The cost difference is driven by IP protections, not by volume of sales.
As I've said before, a shred of evidence for such a confident claim would help convince me.
Also I seriously doubt Amazon hits 20 million kindles a year.
Wired discusses patent restriction here: https://www.wired.com/2016/05/get-ready-world-covered-electr...
Just look at the relevant patents still being filed by the company here (mostly trash): https://patents.justia.com/assignee/e-ink-holdings-inc
See patent suits across the globe - Germany: https://blog.the-ebook-reader.com/2015/03/02/german-court-fi...
Here is the position for their patent lawyer, who actively discusses their "offensive and defensive" actions around their patents: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-bean-0988645
Here are articles discussing the 115k yearly buy-in for their tech (https://www.epo.org/news-events/events/european-inventor/fin...). And note - if you're not large enough to discuss that with them, they usually won't even bother responding.
Wonder why 2016 saw a rapid increase in EPD devices? It's because they lost that 2015 case in the EU.
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So your whole argument boils down to - "they don't do the volume". Which is true but meaningless: Clearly there is demand for these devices, why is the volume not ramping up to match? And I'm saying "Patents and IP restrictions". What are you claiming?
Lets go through the "evidence" you've provided.
> Wired discusses patent restriction here
It doesn't. That paragraph is a quote from Yashar Behzadi, the disgraced ex-CEO of Popslate that stole the money of their indiegogo funders. "Popslate shuts down after raising $1m on Indiegogo". http://oaxis.com/en/popslate-shuts-1m-indiegogo/
> Just look at the relevant patents still being filed by the company here (mostly trash)
I'm not going to debate that with you. But I'm sure you'll consider a patent filed by IBM on linked lists as innovative?
> See patent suits across the globe - Germany:
Yes, good, they lost a patent suit against a 3rd party buyer. I think that indicates the legal system is working properly.
> Here is the position for their patent lawyer,
And what is wrong with that? What exactly is objectionable there?
> Here are articles discussing the 115k yearly buy-in for their tech
Except you've managed to confuse E Ink with the MIT MediaLab Consortium. "MIT Media Lab's News in the Future group and its Things that Think consortium, which consists of about 40 companies, including Microsoft and other heavyweights. Each of the participating corporations paid up to €115,000 per year and thus obtains the right to use any patents awarded to MIT without paying additional royalties. "
> Wonder why 2016 saw a rapid increase in EPD devices? It's because they lost that 2015 case in the EU.
I haven't seen such a rapid increase.
I remember you used the term "bullshit" to describe my opinions. I've read through your initial claims that were presented with such confidence that any reader would assume they were gospel truth. It is clear to me now that Dunning Kruger is quite in effect with your claims.
>Edit August 16 00:09 UTC: A previous version of this post listed the e-ink panel’s refresh rate at 60Hz. This number requires much more context. It takes multiple frames to display most images on an e-ink panel. The visual performance of the panel also depends on the method of converting the screen image to data the panel understands. We will be unable to make estimates of the panel’s true performance in frames per second without much more testing and development. So we’ve removed the 60Hz figure for now. We apologize for any misunderstanding.
Realistically, the best you can do with e-ink is 1-bit with ~120ms refresh (just over 8 frames per second). If you want shades of grey it slows considerably. Dasung and now Boox Mira both support alternative modes that compromise on dynamic range, number of shades of grey, and amount of ghosting to be able to display video somewhat adequately.
I'm curious, why is that so? Can't the control algorithm boost the speed by sending higher voltages when switching, then going back to "holding" voltage?
https://twitter.com/LukaszErecinsk1/status/14308835069477150...
No I'm not interested in the "just email it to yourself" workflow. I want and need to be able to directly interact with OneNote.
Big plus to the relatively open ecosystem of the remarkable is that it's not that hard* to implement yourself. (*hard being a function of tech familiarity here, if you can run/install linux, you're probably fine tinkering)
In my case, I have a few custom scripts that push my notes/notebooks up to a self-hosted Bookstack instance (https://www.bookstackapp.com/). Not something a commercial company is ever likely to make, but workable on a remarkable.
The only option I see is getting an e-ink tablet that runs Android. Even then, I don't know if the pen will work.
$400 might be cheap compared to, say, a remarkable2, but not if the display turns out to be flat-out mediocre. Then that's $400 better spent on "saving up for a remarkable2".
A reMarkable 2 costs $399 brand new, so I'm not sure what you're on about.
> We will be making the PineNote available for early adopters later this year for $399. The early adopter’s PineNote batch will ship with a magnetic cover (working with an on-board hall sensor, putting the device to sleep) as well as the EMR pen. Following the early adopter’s batch, both the cover and the pen will be sold separately.
The Remarkable 2 costs $547 USD with a pen and magnetic cover. So right now the PineNote is ~$150 cheaper, but once they start selling the accessories separately, I'm expecting it to be around $50-$100 cheaper than the R2. Still a good difference, but it's not as competitive price-wise as people think.
Edit: Not that price is all that matters, I'm super excited to have a proper Linux e-ink device!