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Comment by gizdan | Hacker News Reader

While I agree that getting the opinions of a few individuals is not particularly good journalism, this opinion seems to be the consensus among almost everyone I've spoken to about this. Colleagues, ex-colleagues, friends, family, everyone. The few who I have talked to that still want an office, have been in leadership positions, and usually this is from those who are higher up in the ranks.

Fact of the matter is, an office is an outdated method of working with today's technology. It just took a pandemic for the general public to realise this. You pay for a commute that's not necessary, you pay with your time (that you're not paid for) to get there (time that you could be spending on family, or something else), and depending on where you work, you're probably smelling 100s of people's sweat every day, and taking in, and contributing to, a whole lot pollution.

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As someone who has been working from home for years now, I have wanted an office away from home at times.

But that is mainly because my family figured out I work from home and because I work from home they think they can just drop by anytime they like and demand my attention. I have asked a number of them "If I worked at an office would you drop my workplace unannounced because your son has broken his xbox controller (for the third time?)", the answer has been pretty much "ofcause not", so why do you think its acceptable.

I did ponder renting some office space near to home but it's cheaper to be a bit of an arsehole, tell the family "I've rented an office to prevent interruptions during my work day" and just ignore the door then it was to rent space :-P

However I don't have kids which would be more difficult to ignore while working from home. I just have to put up with the neighbourhood cats (including my own) interrupting me now and then, the cat from 2 doors up the street just jumped though the top window of my office to pinch some leftovers and is now raiding my cats toy box for a catnip toy.

But I have the benefit of a) having spare space in my home for a home office b) very little interrupts while at home c) great neighbours d) very good internet connectivity where I live (not excellent as I'm still waiting for 5G and FTTP, but I do have good 4G as a backup connection when needed). If any one of those were missing I would be seeking to either move or acquire office space to fullfill those needs.

>Colleagues, ex-colleagues, friends, family, everyone. The few who I have talked to that still want an office, have been in leadership positions, and usually this is from those who are higher up in the ranks.

That's the problem with looking at a limited number of opinions, I've seen a different consensus in people I've spoken to. Only 1 person (out of around 30) expressed a desire to remain completely remote and never go back to the office, while the rest favoured a hybrid approach. None of those I talked to (including a couple in the C-suite) expressed a desire to return to the office full-time.

Our company is currently fully "home or office, whatever". It turns out to be basically full remote work. The amount of people coming in is miniscule.

I'm not sure what you can judge from right now. I'm familiar with companies that are allowing people back in offices if they want and some people are going in but it's not the default. Apparently it's pretty dead so you basically go in and work. But I don't really expect that to be the norm, say, next year.

It is dead, because nearly no one wants to come in given choice. We could agree on whole team coming in and we discussed it a bit. Initially half our team came for few days and then it gradually dropped. Convenience of being at home won.

There is no wish to come in.

Some people do want basically a co-working space that isn't their house/studio apartment. But, for a lot of people, even an "OK" commute that lands them at a desk near maybe one or two people they work with, possibly in a hoteling arrangement, isn't really that attractive. And, with underutilized offices, amenities--such as they are--are going to get pulled back as well.

What you're ending up with is that neither the people who want to be remote nor the people who were OK with going in specifically for pre-pandemic office are interested in going in. I'm not sure how well hybrid works and there will probably be some shifting around as a result.

The surveys I've seen have been pretty consistent (for people who can work from home most days): about 20% fully remote and about 20% five days per week in office with the balance coming in a few days per week. I see a pretty broad consensus that hybrid will be the main mode although mostly in office and fully remote will be significant too.

One challenge is that this means that in-office people that were used to everyone being physically present will largely have to adapt for many meetings (for example) to operate as if everyone were remote.

I dare say it is the consencus but I don't think it's a surprise to learn that people hate commuting.

The problem is that managers want to see people working and an office environment is perfect for this purpose. I would be surprised if anything really changes in this regard long-term, other than in a few outlying cases.

Do managers really care if you're in seats working? Most managers I know are fans of remote because they're usually older and have family. The push to return is coming from company executives at the very top.

Anecdotally, there are a lot of bad managers around who do care. I'm glad your actual experience contradicts this.

This hasn't been my experience so far, I've been looking at moving jobs recently and I've got plenty of options even after discarding anything with required office hours or "temporarily remote" jobs which will return to mandatory commuting.

I hope I am proved wrong and your experience becomes the norm.

Well in my experience as a developer 9 of 10 managers who said they prefer result / outcome and don't care about the process will be the first to complaint if see you're reading news / articles and oppose remote working

Then you have a limited cross section of people that you talk to, and it seems they come from a mono culture.

From the people I talked to it is mixed with the majority wanting no more than 3 days, with most going for 2 days at home the rest in the office. The Hybrid model...

The amount of decisions, and knowledge that is passed around in a given office with just idle in person chats in the hallways or inpromptu meetings pretty large in many organizations, this everyday knowledge transfer does not happen in WFH, or happens less often, this can lead to things being missed, people being left out of the loop, etc.

Also it really depends on if a person a location in their home that can dedicate to an Office, that can be door closed off for meetings, and have no / limited interruptions.

I know a few people that do not have a spare room or other space to dedicate to that, so WFH for them is using the Kitchen table, or a desk in the living room that is not ideal... People like this generally prefer to be in the office.

It sounds like you’re talking to people who have no experience working from home. Information sharing and documentation is far better when everyone is remote. I’ve worked dozens of places, in person and remote and “happenstance innovation in the hallway” is a myth perpetuated by poor managers, sociopathic execs and those looking to turn the office into their social circle. All constituencies that negatively impact quality of work.

>>“happenstance innovation in the hallway” is a myth perpetuated

hmm I experience it every day, where I over hear something in the hallway that another team it working on, that impacts my team.

This is especially true for IT depts who are often the last to know about something when they should be included from the Jump...

but sure just deny my 20+ years experience and insert yours as more valid that mine...

I am sure what you experience is true for you, and I am sure as I said in my original comment my experience my not be true for a company that has been WFH as primary for years, or from their formation.

However if you work for a 60+ year old company that until 2020 never had any WFH then just try to graft on WFH, that is going to be an issue

> hmm I experience it every day, where I over hear something in the hallway that another team it working on, that impacts my team.

If this is how you are finding out about things that impact your team, then your company’s communication and planning is broken and work from office is a bandaid enabling that. Wfh forces good process as it’s not sustainable without it.

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