Police in the US shoot dogs so often, an expert calls it an “epidemic” (2016)
qz.com
qz.com
It turned out that the dogs were two happy playful boxer puppies who didn't physically harm the rabbit in the slightest, and the fence was so rotten that a stiff breeze could have knocked it down.
What stuck with me, though, was that a couple of the cops who showed up to the scene were disappointed that they wouldn't get to shoot a dog after all.
https://www.vox.com/2020/7/31/21334190/what-police-do-defund... (Vox: We train police to be warriors — and then send them out to be social workers)
So, I’d say from my perspective and experience, it’s likely a job that is probably attractive to bullies, as opposed a job that is creating them.
That said, the training could be much better than it is. But people like low taxes.
People line up for these types of jobs. It's just that a certain type of person is hired to fill them.
[1] https://www.nj.com/news/2017/05/how_much_is_the_median_cop_s...
1. Asking engineers if they want the job doesn’t seem like a gotcha. Of course not they’re engineers
2. I wouldn’t mind the job, really, but I don’t want to work with the type of people who currently are on most police forces.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/st...
Some people become police after failing to qualify for the military. Salary can't be their only motivation.
But you seem to be holding them accountable not for their actions, but their words later.
There is entirely too much focus on peoples thoughts rather than their track record of actions.
Let's raise the stakes for another example. If a cop does a debrief after a routine traffic stop and says, "I was waiting for a reason to shoot this man where he stands", that's a matter of concern. It doesn't matter that the cop did the correct thing this time, because they're showing that the desire to kill someone is the driving force in their actions.
For instance, you can interpret disappointment in at least two ways:
(A) Disappointment that they were unable to apply lethal force regardless of the situation; or
(B) Disappointment that the situation did not call for lethal force, but had no desire to apply lethal force where it was not required.
You chose (A), but there's really no evidence presented for that interpretation over (B).
This is just another reason we should judge actions rather than words. Actions are much more objective.
I can't think of any reason why someone should be justifiably disappointed they couldn't apply lethal force.
I don't claim that words mean nothing, but we seem to be weighting them much too highly. Especially when we have actual actions to compare it to.
Gary Potter, "The History of Policing in the US"[1]:
"In the Southern states the development of American policing followed a different path. The genesis of the modern police organization in the South is the “Slave Patrol” (Platt 1982). The first formal slave patrol was created in the Carolina colonies in 1704 (Reichel 1992)."
"More than crime, modern police forces in the United States emerged as a response to “disorder.” What constitutes social and public order depends largely on who is defining those terms, and in the cities of 19th century America they were defined by the mercantile interests, who through taxes and political influence supported the development of bureaucratic policing institutions. More than crime, modern police forces in the United States emerged as a response to “disorder.” These economic interests had a greater interest in social control than crime control. Private and for profit policing was too disorganized and too crime-specific in form to fulfill these needs. The emerging commercial elites needed a mechanism to insure a stable and orderly work force, a stable and orderly environment for the conduct of business, and the maintenance of what they referred to as the “collective good” (Spitzer and Scull 1977). These mercantile interests also wanted to divest themselves of the cost of protecting their own enterprises, transferring those costs from the private sector to the state."
Neil Postman, "Technopoly":
“Adolf Eichmann becomes the basic model and metaphor for a bureaucrat in the age of Technopoly. When faced with the charge of crimes against humanity, he argued that he had no part in the formulation of Nazi political or sociological theory; he dealt only with the technical problems of moving vast numbers of people from one place to another. Why they were being moved and, especially, what would happen to them when they arrived at their destination were not relevant to his job. Although the jobs of bureaucrats in today's Technopoly have results far less horrific, Eichmann's answer is probably given five thousand times a day in America alone: I have no responsibility for the human consequences of my decisions. I am only responsible for the efficiency of my part of the bureaucracy, which must be maintained at all costs.”
[1]:https://plsonline.eku.edu/sites/plsonline.eku.edu/files/the-...
If even 1% of police officers have this mindset, that's a spectacular failure of civilized society. In apparent probability, it's somewhere north of 1%. But how small could we realistically get this number via policy (assuming a magical ability to measure it)? It might be so ingrained in present society and/or human nature, and so hard to test for, that we can't eliminate or even satisfactorily minimize it. I hope eventually we take meaningful steps toward the one realistic thing we can attempt: Mercilessly removing such officers from the force when they do make their morality/incompetence clear. Unfortunately, to do this, we would need to somehow work around the despicable protection such officers are granted by their own, and by voters, which is complicated by consisting partly of genuine support for an incredibly difficult and critical job, and partly by unspoken (and sometimes spoken) support for oppression and violence.
Approximately 10000 per year, which is about equal to the number of human murder victims, and about ten times the number of humans killed by police (justifiably or not) each year.
There are about 4 times as many humans in the US as dogs: https://financesonline.com/number-of-dogs-in-the-us/
I really wish articles would make context numbers like this clear. I had to poke around. Judge for yourself whether this is an epidemic, but do so based on some numbers that provide some grounding.
Disclaimer: I found these numbers quickly and probably made some mistakes, but I don't think they are wildly off.
It could be that, in many of those incidents, lethal force prevented the deaths of other people. But I don't have numbers to say one way or another.
Too many Americans do not treat their dogs as the potentially dangerous animals that they are.
I am expected to uncritically believe the owners, to believe that all these dogs are harmless and well trained and that they're all being shot for no reason. Well I believe that some of them are being shot for no good reason, but I've seen very little to suggest that most are. And from my interactions with the general public, I am inclined to believe most dogs are, if not dangerous, then at least poorly trained.
40 years in California, I'd only ever been assaulted by dogs a handful of times and that's because they weren't controlled. Dogs are generally allowed to run freely in their own yards/homes so it makes sense that strangers/police entering yards and homes in a stressful situation, encounter aggressive animals much more frequently.
Frankly it ruins my hikes so I go out less and less.
I need to check what are the covid restrictions but if it's OK next time I'll check if their dogs are better behaved than ours.
(Though in this last year, I have seen more misbehaved dogs in the Deutschschweiz than I have seen in all my years here.)
I walked out.
I don’t need to eat my food at a place that allows dog ass on its tables.
I was tempted to take photo and report to the Dept of Health but did not.
Are you saying that you believe the dogs that bit you should have been shot?
How many people do dogs kill per year in the USA?
How many people do police kill per year in the USA?
I'll wait.
On top of studying and tracking gun violence statistics, the CDC also spends around $30m/year on research and grants to reduce gun deaths
> Federal money for gun research all but disappeared after Congress in 1996 enacted the so-called Dickey Amendment, which barred the C.D.C. from spending money to “advocate or promote gun control.” It was named for Jay Dickey, a former Republican House member from Arkansas, who proudly proclaimed himself the National Rifle Association’s “point man” in Washington.
> [...]
> In 2019, Dr. Rosenberg and Mr. Dickey’s former wife, Betty, a retired former prosecutor and chief justice of the Arkansas Supreme Court, helped persuade Congress to restore the funding; lawmakers appropriated $25 million, split between the C.D.C. and the National Institutes of Health, for firearm injury prevention research.
Congress stymied funding for 25 years, but it has since been restored.
Maybe a lot of them are just barking and looking scary, but don't know enough to be afraid of a gun, so stand still?
It's trivial to find videos of dog attacks that contradict your absolutist assertion.
(I've been attacked by dogs multiple times, and indeed, they warn before attacking.)
https://uarmprotection.com/shop/category/other-equipment/can...
It's a funny story, but had he been in law enforcement (or at least armed, which will be very easy in Texas beginning September 1), I believe that same assumption would have resulted in the death of a sweet family pet.
When I have people in my house who aren't familiar with my dogs (who are friendly), I put the dogs away and let the people know exactly which door they should not open.
If nothing else it's just very, very rude to leave your dog loose in the house when a worker comes in, unless they say it's okay. You don't know if they're allergic or scared of dogs, and they're there to do a job. Show them the respect of allowing them to do their job uninterrupted by your dog (and don't let your dogs escape your house... that's just basic stuff).
And then they go and open that exact door anyway. I’ve had that happen to me.
Also, I think it says something about the temperament and worldview of the owners of these dogs that they so often seem very concerned with appearing brave or cowardly.
"worldview of the owners of these dogs": What kind of dogs? Dachshunds? Pits? Labs? In the my experience, "these dogs" is a bit of a code phrase, similar to when politicians have said "you people". As for my worldview, I am opposed to stereotypes and discrimination and do my best to consistent in that.
I think you understand this, but are pretending not to. Let me tell you, feigned ignorance is not persuasive.
Dogs that are too far gone should be put down: they basically will bite and attack anyone and anything. Still not their fault but they are gone.
It doesn't matter that they are lovable creatures that never showed any signals of violence, then can change in seconds if them deem the situation bad enough (and what is a bad situation for a dog is really not intuitive for humans).
Is it possible to read any article without being psy-op'd?
Why is this about "white people" caring about dogs? Non-white people do not care about dogs? Why is this a white people only thing?
>No one keeps records on how many privately owned dogs are shot and killed each year by American law enforcement officers so there are no hard figures. But a perusal of the Web and social media will tell you it's a lot.
Hmmm... based on self claimed social media... wow, that's some hardcore journalism skills let me tell you. Because only the truth is allowed on social media. Oh how knee jerky the HN community has become just for some virtue signal points... I swear, next you all are going to claim an api service will save the trees...