I'm open to any country in the world, I want to just work on my games. So with that in mind I'll need good internet access. From what I can see, this is very doable in Eastern Europe.
Eventually, I do plan on returning to the US, but I want to spend at least 6 months overseas.
Housing is probably the biggest living expense. I take advantage of Korea's interesting rental system called Cheonsae:
Basically, if you put down a huge deposit (like $90,000: 50% to 90% of the value of the property), you don't pay any monthly rent and get the entire deposit back when you move out. My place has a $50 monthly management fee, but that includes high-speed internet. (So I joke that I get free housing with my internet.)
Of course, there is an opportunity cost because that deposit could have generated interest, but I figure the break-even point is 12% APY. (It is possible to lower the deposit by increasing monthly rent.) So it's advantageous to take out a bank loan at 2-4% interest to pay for the deposit.
There is a small risk you won't be able to get your deposit back if the owner mismanages their finances. I believe the Korean government actually guarantees housing deposits up to $50,0000 or so. In Korea, the tenants actually do background checks on the landlords! The minimum deposit is usually $10,000, so landlords usually don't scrutinize tenants.
I wouldn't do it unless I had a partner who is already a citizen , but I'll definitely keep this in mind.
How much is rent if I didn't want to deposit that much ?
Housing costs will vary greatly depending on location. $90,000 is in Gimpo, just outside of Seoul. Busan is probably half the cost of Seoul, and outside any major metro areas it's probably even lower.
Also even within the same real estate market prices vary greatly depending on the neighborhood, type, and size of unit. Another major factor is distance to nearest public transportation (subway).
Another thing to note is since monthly rent is usually more profitable for landowners, there is a movement away from the cheonsae system. However, I was still able to find plenty of options exactly one year ago.
- $10,000 additional deposit reduces monthly rent by $50.
- 50 * 12 = 600
- 600/10,000 = 6%
The monthly rent reduction used to be $100 per $10,000. So it used to be 12%. I guess the break-even point is 6%, now...
Concrete example: I could reduce the deposit from $90,000 to $10,000. But then my rent would go from $0/month to $400/month. So by keeping a large deposit, I save $4800/year in rent.
I did not consider that!
That's kind of a strange system. Any idea how it evolved there? Basically sounds like the landlord has to invest the money in such a way as to get a return that would be equivalent to rent but also safe enough so that they can return the deposit. I don't think I'd want to be a landlord there.
It's actually greatly favorable to landlords. Just think about what happens when one side is out of money. Under the monthly rent system, landlords can't get any more money until they evict the renter (which is a lot of hassle, anywhere in the world). Under the "jeonse" system, if the landlord becomes bankrupt, the renter is suddenly out of a large portion of their total wealth, and will be evicted by the new owner - without any money to find the next place.
(There are insurances to protect renters but the risk is still there.)
Now interest rates are much lower, but Koreans got used to paying $0 rent and anything above that feels like they are being ripped off.
One reason landlords like the system is because they can daisy-chain the purchase of multiple properties. They take the first cheonsae deposit and use it to purchase another property, then use the cheonsae deposit from the 2nd property to purchase a 3rd property, and so on...
Even if landlords don't receive monthly rent, they expect to earn money on the increased value of the property. Cheonsae contracts are normally 2 years, then they can ask for more deposit or sell the property for a profit.
More info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeonse
That sounds like it’d be a disaster during a liquidity crunch.
There are worse places to make that bet.
Or let's put it this way: a rational bet is something like, this thing is worth $50 now, it will be worth at least $100 later. An irrational bet is one like "this thing will be worth more over and over again!" If everyone things like that, then the thing's price will keep rising until the bubble bursts.
South Korea has two characteristics that directly impact that: scarcity of land (relative to population) and a solid, world-leading economy in many high margin industries.
It's not inconceivable property with such qualities could increase in value forever, and still be properly valued.
So saying "Just like 2008 US" is a pretty pithy distillation of a number of complicated factors.
Do they not do home mortgages in South Korea? Are properties expected to go down in price?
You also get to avoid the risk of the landlord not giving you a large sum of money back.
And then they have to return the deposit eventually... how is this different from a Ponzi scheme? :P
This Korean system should work in theory. People generally don't move very frequently. As long as there's a liquid market for investments in stocks & bonds, and the housing appreciates in value over the long term, it's not a bad system.
Seems pretty favorable to the landlords too. They get $90k up front for a $100k house. Which they could invest for an 8% or so return, which, in the first year is ~$550/mo in rent, compounded each year, minus maintenance. Yield wise, $7k on a $10k investment ($100k house - $90k from renter) is fucking amazing.
The fact that is has been around for so long suggests that it works in practice too. Yeah, maybe a black swan event causes a liquidity crunch. But so long as the government steps in to provide liqudity (low interest mortgages would work), then it shouldn't hurt too bad. Worst case, foreign investors step in to buy up the real estate.
The "pool of capital" never grows here, either. Landlords get more assets (houses), but also more liabilities (deposits).
A Ponzi scheme is perfectly capable of having underlying investments, by the way. I'm pretty sure Madoff bought houses with his money, too.
> Which they could invest for an 8% or so return
Where the heck do you get an 8% return with no risk? I want in.
> The fact that is has been around for so long
How many decades did Madoff's ponzi scheme last?
Say I get $90,000 to go buy a house, I spend the $90,000 and have 1 door. I get a tenant in it and they make a $90,000 down payment. I then go buy another house and get another tenant in it and they make a $90,000 down payment. I now have two houses and still have the same amount of money I started with, I can continue this cycle and as long as property appreciates I don't just get the property appreciation from one house I get it from all of the houses so (% appreciation * property value * number of properties).
Say it is a $100,000 property and it appreciates 3%. If I had just bought one house and put the money in an interest yielding savings account I would get some low % return. If I instead chained it to acquire 10 houses I would get $30,000 return, which is 30%. But if the value of the house goes down it works against me!
Obviously this ignores transaction costs, interest costs etc.
Why wouldn't the tenant spend $90,000 on the house themselves, cutting out the middleman?
Usually cheonsae deposit is less than 100% of the purchase price, so it costs less. Even if the difference is small (10%), you are guarded from drops in real estate value. If you put down $90,000 deposit you should get back exactly $90,000 even if the property value dropped below that.
And perhaps cheonsae loans are easier to get than house mortgages. I'm not sure about this, but the deposit may be better collateral than the property?
If anyone knows a method to short Korean housing, please let me know!
I was thinking the same, but here's another way of framing it: they're like real estate agents [1] in the US, except that instead of keeping a 2.5%–5% commission at every sale, they keep the capital gains. They may not need to invest deposits at all to make money.
To me renting under this system doesn't seem clearly better than buying. You're paying most of the money to buy the property, but it's not an investment. You can't come out ahead. But at least there's no risk or hassle of doing property maintenance.
[edit: no, I just saw yongjik's comment: "Under the 'jeonse' system, if the landlord becomes bankrupt, the renter is suddenly out of a large portion of their total wealth, and will be evicted by the new owner - without any money to find the next place. (There are insurances to protect renters but the risk is still there.)" I don't think I'd like to rent under this system at all.]
[1] and property managers who handle repairs and such, but that's probably not how they make their money at $50/month.
Usually there is a monthly management fee that ranges from $50 to $100+ dollars that covers cleaning of common areas, repairs, etc.
Many South Korean landlords are underwater on a bad investment and use the next renter's deposit to pay out the last. Citation not possible.
The point of the system was to spur investment in the south korean economy.
Of course that prior speculative bet could be in mortgage(s). You would need to look at other weakness in that economy to rationalize whatever bet you want.
I haven't blogged in a long time, but here are the Korea-related blog posts:
http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/my-life-prologue.html
http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/past-month-in-review.html
http://blog.leftium.com/2007/06/my-life-chapter-i.html
http://blog.leftium.com/2010/08/dragon-flies-and-praying-man...
http://blog.leftium.com/2010/09/how-to-eat-korean-food.html
http://blog.leftium.com/2010/10/october-update-whats-good-in...
I have an F4 visa that allows me to stay in Korea for up to 3 years, and it's simple to extend without leaving Korea. Technically I have almost all the rights as a Korean citizen except for the right to vote for president. (In practice it's more limited. For example it's nearly impossible for me to get a loan.)
With the F4 visa, I can work or not work. The F4 visa is granted to people who have relatives who are Korean citizens.
I can easily imagine somewhere outside Seoul/Jeju/Busan being surprisingly affordable
And I was a little fast and loose with the KRW-USD conversion. I opted for the simple 1USD == 1000KRW, so the actual numbers are a little higher.
ETA: Nomadlist suggests €1,925/mo for Seoul, €1,530/mo for Jeju Island, South Korea; €1,047/mo for Tbilisi, Georgia; €627/mo for Bandung, Indonesia.
ETA: Nomadlist has a list of places below USD 1000/mo: https://nomadlist.com/places-on-a-budget
Isn't this just capturing the difference between short(ish term vs long term relocation? Places like Nomadist are aimed at the first category, not "what's the cheapest you can live in city X", no?
If that’s your position, then I’d think any multinational sending you on a multi year stint abroad would offer that kind of package.
Interesting framing
But still the numbers are useful and mostly accurate within a range
Batumi is also known as Colchis, the destination for the Argonauts in Greek Mythology, so plenty of history & culture and great food.
The Grand Tour did a special driving through Georgia to Azerbaijan if you want to get a feel for what the region looks like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guanajuato_City
Edit: I lived there 5 years ago and USD$1k per month would have been plenty, but a nomad website I just looked up lists it at $1250. I'm surprised by that, I think you would be fine. In fact I know people who live there who don't earn anything near $15k USD per year.
If you want a big city you can still do Busan, daegu, ulsan etc
The next time I move to Korea (which I do every couple years), I'm gonna try Busan. I've visited a few times, but haven't ever lived there.
Leaseholders are called "homeowners" but they don't really own the home in the normal sense and are closer to long term renters in their rights.
A freeholder is basically renting out a house for 99 years and the leaseholder has to pay all the rent upfront (+ renewal). On the upside, if the freeholder wants to sell the house he's required to offer it to the leaseholder first.
So you're giving them a usurious loan basically.
Housing returns:https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w24112/w241... S&P : https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/042415/what-average...
What would the equivalent rent have been for the place you live in for free (with 90k deposit)?
In nominal terms the S&P500 would do 10% a year or so on average. Over the past decade it's been 14.7%, so that $90k would've returned 13k a year on average.
In general I feel South Korea has been a great value for money location, if you bring external capital. If I compare it to neighbouring Japan for example, prices seem so much more affordable. Of course the working culture is not easy, but for OP it'd be a great choice.
The general rule is $50/rent per $10,000 deposit, however it's up to the landlord. I think my place was actually more like $80,000 deposit + $100 rent (vs. $50). I recall the different options with rent fit the formula, but there was a big drop in rent if it was all deposit and no monthly rent. Maybe the owner preferred avoiding the hassle of collecting monthly rent (still have to collect monthly management fee, though...)
When calculating the real estate commission, the formula is used to arrive at a total value for the transaction. So the real estate broker's cut is the same whether the rent is big or small. And I think the commission is the same whether it's a rental or purchase.
If I was going to live in a Major city anywhere,Seoul would be in the top 2 along with Tokyo
For me, the biggest hurdle was saving up the deposit. Koreans have easy access to cheonsae loans at 2-4% interest rates. It's very difficult for foreigners to get a loan in Korea.
$10,000 deposit used to be converted to $100 rent (to get 12%). It's now only $50 rent. (Although in my case I think it still was $100/12%).
Personally, I wouldn't bother with jeonsae unless somebody else is paying for it (parents, employer, bank), keep your money in your favorite speculative investment instead.
Also, Poland should be a great place to actually run your game studio company from, as the tax on "IT innovation" (should not be hard to include games in this category) is only 6% - everything after that ends up in your pocket (i.e. no further dividend tax etc is required).
Assuming you won't be getting a car, public transit and Uber/taxis are affordable as well - a 5 km trip via Uber should perhaps be around $4.
I suspect other countries in the region should have similar numbers. Healthcare system and tax incentives should definitely be the biggest differentiator.
Gas is currently $5.5 per gallon. Most people drive cars with low fuel consumption, so they're easy to get on second-hand market. Also, if one is particularly stingy about fuel costs, it's popular to own cars fueled by LPG. LPG is currently $2.5 per gallon.
I’ll add that it’s been popular for the last decade, up to 15 years. So don’t think it’s going anywhere, anytime soon!
Most of my friends don't have cars, around half doesn't have a driver's license. They can afford a car easily, but just don't see a need.
That said, I’d you’re not white and straight, small towns could be very unwelcoming, from people staring, to telling you to go, to physical violence. Rare but true.
But hand on heart can I say to someone outside that narrow blueprint it’s definitely fine? Nope.
It would rather be the odd skinhead on the bus or in the street. The current government is also quietly accepting such behaviours, as it is their voter base, so the few “bad apples” feel they can act with impunity.
I don’t want to overplay it, it’s not Nazi Germany, but for sure something to consider. Nice place one way or the other.
Also, the idea that the current government is quietly accepting skinhead violence is preposterous.
There are Indian people living and working in Poland, so it can’t be too bad. Right wing media say nothing of racist attacks. Left wing media describe them all the time. There are vocal nationalists, most of whom never go past their grumblings.
I raise it as I’d be somewhat concerned sending a non-white or job-straight friend into rural Poland.
If you look at UK Foreign Office travel advice, the LGBT intolerance warrants a mention, but no other warning: https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/poland/local-laws-a... . I guess attitudes to non-white people could get a similar treatment.
During my last visit, wireless phone service was super in the major cities...even better than Canada's.
As a tourist, Poland was a pretty big bang on my money: Equivalent item from the west for 1/3 of the cost while enjoying modern amenities. But I can see non Polish speakers would have difficulties living there in the longer term. During my trips, I insisted on travelling with at least one native Polish speaker.
You better put aside the remaining 13% for 5 years, just in case the inevitable happens.
People will know enough English for you to get by, but it will feel very isolating. Learning just a little bit of Polish will make a world of difference, especially if you need to talk with a plumber or doctor (they're very unlikely to know much English).
Places like this will help with a visa for a more extended stay so you can run your "startup":
https://notesfrompoland.com/2020/11/25/poland-has-eus-worst-...
https://www.sustainability-times.com/clean-cities/battling-t...
Also, if OP enjoys smoking pot, that might be an issue as per family who lives there it will be a big change vs coming from California.
Personally when traveling in Krakow and Warsaw I've found more racism against brown people lately vs 10 years ago... random cabbies and bartenders going on unprovoked rants against immigrants. Not sure if that's been one-off but that was surprising for me at least.
Yep. European’s view the perpetual grin dimly, and doubly so in Poland where direct communication is how things are done. It’s honestly nice because in general people there mean business and don’t care to save face. don’t think you’ll be catching west coast vibes from anyone!
By some magical coincidence, just a year later the black-on-yellow 'Happy Face' (Smiley) was introduced by the 'Good Guys' on NYC radio and used on badges for an insurance company.
Because it's early in the morning, I also wonder if there are other countries where the phrase "wipe that smile off your face" means you're in danger.
Certainly no song and dance to the way they do business.
I live in Żary (Tier-3 City), which is near Żagań. Quick overview:
- small city is quite cheap. Prices said by @burntoutfire are right
- there are around 2000 US soldiers hanging around here. So you won't be alone :) if someone told you that small cities in eastern europe may be intolerant (or unsafe or unwelcoming) for travelers - it's not here. Here Everyone thinks that every American met is a soldier with combat training ;)
- internet is cheap and stable. mobile is cheap and stable (comparing to US or western Europe). In almost every place you can pay using credit card.
- ecommerce is working great here. Delivery takes 1 working day. Parcel lockers are on every corner of Poland already :)
- it's close to Germany (10 miles to border, 100 miles to Berlin) so you can get two cultures in one visit.
- people in Poland are... mentally somewhere between Russians and Germans ;)
- most of the people <40yo understand english. But many of them have no practice and are just afraid to speak. The younger people you meet the bigger chance to speak english you have.
- it's the region with a lot of forests (like 70% of area). So the air quality is decent comparing to any large city.
- covid is not an issue here right now. We had 6 new cases in last 24h per 1 million people. There is no "next wave" coming. You should wear a mask in closed space, but except visits at hospital/doctors no one cares.
Couple of a links to get you started:
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/serbia-best-places-to...
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20170822-belgrades-floati...
https://theculturetrip.com/europe/serbia/articles/an-expats-...
https://www.quora.com/What-is-life-like-for-American-expats-...
https://www.quora.com/Why-are-so-many-foreigners-moving-to-B...
People move to Belgrade because it’s cheap and the food is awesome. I’ve partied at the Splavs and had a great time. Random people were much more friendlier than Germans (the Serbs told me they were robots). There are some resentments by the Serbs against Americans and NATO bombings. It did come up while I was there.
I have childhood friends who came to the US during the Yugoslav wars in the 90s. When I mentioned them my coworkers they would quickly point out the last name was Muslim and not Serbian. Also they would point out the one or two Albanians that worked with us.
In Europe, discrimination, when it happens, is usually based on national or religious differences. All wars Europeans ever fought were over national or religious reasons.
In Serbia generally racial discrimination is not present, nor is a topic of any conversation in media or society (certainly not to any extent like in US). There was a war between serbs and bosnian muslims and serbs and kosovo muslims (note national/religious connotation) some 20 years ago, and some people may have 'hard feelings' about it, but in general that's the end of it. Still, being a Muslim in Serbia is IMO a 'better' experience than being one in USA (maybe also because 5% of population of Serbia is Muslim vs ~1% in USA).
Discrimination based on nationality is a thing, but it is very much something that varies a lot in Europe. To generalise it as one of the top reasons for discrimination isn't quite right in my opinion.
That said, it's the type of discrimination that is the most prevalent, simply because that's what most people deal with.
However, I think that in day to day life skin colour may be more noticeable than other types of discrimination, simply because it is easier to make out.
While in some places discrimination of certain nationalities or religions is certainly common place and as such might seem like it is the predominant form of discrimination, discrimination based on skin colour is also present. Maybe to a lesser degree, but it is present everywhere.
The simple truth is that the "better" experience will be the one Caucasians get.
Perhaps we can agree that in Europe, national/religious discrimination is probably an order of magnitude more prevalent than any other form of discrimination. From my experience and in practical terms, I would even put social/economic/education based discrimination before skin color based one.
Those individuals who during the 1990s were the most ardent supporters of the ultranationalist politics that paved the way for the genocide in Srebrenica—for the ethnic ‘cleansing’ of Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina as well as Kosovo—are in charge today, too. Since the time of the socialist state’s end, there have hardly been any powerful political actors in Serbia who did not in some way advocate some idea of a ‘Greater Serbia’.
There is a clear continuity of nationalist politics that has more or less been going on since the nineteenth century, and the dominant line of political thinking in Serbia throughout history has mostly been nationalism. The essentialization of Muslims as the ultimate ‘Other’ has been one of this nationalism’s main pillars. On the one hand, Serb converts to Islam are in some way worse than ‘born’ Muslims for most Serbian nationalists. There is the popular saying ‘a poturica [convert] is worse than a Turk’, and the derogatory term poturica applies to all South Slavs who have accepted Islam—including Bosniaks and Serbian converts.
I would not necessarily compare Serbians to conservatives in US (we are both generalizing now). What you may have experienced in general is 'caution' because that region of the world experienced wars every 30 years on average for the last 1000 years (unlike US). So it's not like its resisting change, but the progress was hindered so many times, having to rebuild everything from scratch. And it is hard to be 'liberal' in an environment where in some places you do not have basic infrastructure. Political 'progressive' thinking usually comes after you solved basic needs. That's just my assessment.
Other than that it's just an incredibly interesting city to walk through, even if you're inconvenienced as a pedestrian multiple times on that trip. You never know what you'll find behind the corner: a building that looks like it's falling apart, a gaze-inspiring brutalist building from Yugoslav times, or a modern-looking office. The only thing you know for sure is that you won't have to walk long before finding a café.
I think a single guy could live on quite a bit less, but has to pay some rent. For about 250-300 USD per month you can get a decent enough place to live I'd wager (think: condo studio, 35 m2, gym, swimming pool). If you eat Thai food some of the time, food can be quite cheap (a meal without drinks could be had for about 1-2 USD in a typical Thai food stall or at a food court). If you buy foreign food things can get more expensive. Depending on where you live, coffee can also be had for 1-2 USD. Renting a scooter would be advisable for getting around a city, but would cost an additional 100 USD per month.
Our daughter is 4.5 years old now. Due to COVID the schools have been closed for the last month or so, but should be open again starting September. My daughter is half foreigner, half Thai and goes to a Thai private school in the area. Don't expect too much of these private schools on the country side, but it should beat government education (which is pretty much free). For the private school we pay about 700 USD per year.
I work from home and since our daughter has been home a lot lately, I've resorted to working during the nights when my daughter is asleep. I tend to sleep from the morning to the afternoon. From the afternoon until the evening I spend at least a few hours every day with my daughter, playing LEGO, looking the iPad together, drawing, etc...
She has a niece nearby that visits almost every day and is just a couple of years older. In daytime she often plays with her niece. We also have a neighbour with a son of about equal age as our daughter and sometimes they play together.
There's not too much kid friendly stuff around here I guess, but my girlfriend does occasionally take our daughter to a playground nearby, at a government school. There's a soccer field and such for children to play on.
I believe even here on the country side there's plenty of good dentists, but I have to admit I haven't tried any dentist here myself. Usually when I visit The Netherlands, once or twice a year, I visit my own dentist. Our daughter hasn't visited the dentist yet and my girlfriend doesn't either (she just takes good care of her teeth).
If our daughter is sick, usually we first visit the clinic of the doctor that delivered our daughter in the hospital (many doctors here in Thailand have their own clinic that they work at after finishing their work hours at the hospital). If there's a bigger problem, we drive to Chiang Mai (about 2-3 hours drive) to visit the private Ram hospital which offers better care. We had to visit the hospital in Chiang Mai two times in the past and stay there for a few days.
In the future I'd like to move again to a coastal area, perhaps Pattaya, perhaps Hua Hin, perhaps some other place. In those areas there's more stuff for kids to do, for example there's often an entertainment area for children in the larger shopping malls like Central, BluPort, etc... Also at these coastal areas there's entertainment like amusement parks, zoos, beaches, etc... Also there's better quality (but much more expensive) education available, like international schools.
Going further east, Tbilisi (Georgia) and Lviv (Ukraine) are also very inexpensive yet safe and filled with interesting culture.
Due to the Turkish lira collapsing, Turkey is also very inexpensive if you have USD. You can rent an apartment in central Istanbul for ±$400 a month.
For comparison, Lviv to Donetsk is a greater distance than Berlin to Paris or London to Milan, and only slightly less than New York to Chicago.
That doesn't bold well for stability. Hungry did appear on my list, the rent seems very very low.
Right now I'm trying to see where COVID-19 will be in a few months. If it's still not possible to travel easily, I might need to stay and save for a bit longer.
Hungary is also a good (and affordable) choice. Budapest is probably one of the most interesting cities in Europe, IMO.
Also turkey is big and diverse, so if borders closes, it is still large country to travel. It hardly puts any limitations on foreigners.
Also - how widespread is the understanding of the English language?
- Serbia: Driving in Novi Sad, and another driver illegally passed me and hit my car coming back into traffic, causing a few hundred euro in damage to my car. He got out and yelled me and then drove off before exchanging any info. I had photos of his license plates, but multiple Serbian friends advised me to not deal with it because it would ultimately come down to who was more able to deal with the nuance of bribing the police. On the other hand, I once stupidly left my Macbook Pro on a flight landing in Belgrade, and it ended up in the hands of the airport police, who handled everything professionally.
- Bosnia: Driving into the country, with insurance that's valid in Bosnia (and every country in Europe), which it says right on my insurance form. The immigration officer denies this and sends me over to his buddy 20m away to buy "Bosnian insurance". Only €30, but definitely corruption.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/21/this-35-year-old-expat-lives...
As for language, of course, your experience will depend on where you want to live in the country. North-east sees less tourists than the coast, and finding that sweet middle might take some trial and error.
It's a great place if you're adventurous - if you're looking for stability, it isn't the place for you. Upsides are that Albanians love Americans (as opposed to the Serbs, who often harbor a grudge) and generally speak at least some english. Prices for things like coffee, etc. are low.
Albanians also have not been very good stewards of their environments, either - litter is a constant, nobody gives an "F" about rules and regulations, practically all the endemic animals have disappeared, and waterways, including beaches, are quite polluted. Cities are a hodgepodge of chaotic construction and barely-functioning infrastructure.
I lived roughly here: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.3170299,19.8070025,3a,60y,24...
If that kind of scene excites you, perhaps Albania is for you.
And in 3 minutes walking distance you have every type of service that exists in the city.
Parts of Greece can also be surprisingly affordable (with much better infrastructure than Albania), particularly if you hit a place that's a summer hot-spot in the off-season.
Also not true in Germany where Munich is more expensive than Berlin.
Probably not true in most countries.
I'm half Romanian and have been considering doing what OP is doing for a while. Cluj was probably going to be my choice, in case I wanted to hire any students.
https://www.aetnainternational.com/en/individuals/health-pla...
These expat health insurance plans are designed for expats living abroad, not US residents who spend time (even a significant amount) outside of the US each year.
Is there any risk they would drop you if you or your partner had a major illness or injury?
https://www.irs.gov/affordable-care-act/individuals-and-fami...
Furthermore, there’s a wrinkle to watch out for where “renewing” a policy is actually “buying a new policy”. A new diagnosis under the current policy then becomes a disqualifying “pre-existing condition” when trying to get the new policy.
You can live in Varkala/Goa (if you love beaches) and Dharmshala/Shimla (if you love mountains) for even less.
Otherwise, there is uninterrupted power supply 24x7x365.
Do you have any specific time zone requirements? That makes a big difference if collaborating with anyone.
The length of time you can stay on a tourist visa has a big impact. It is limited to 90 days in most of the EU where there are open borders. You would need to fully exit the schengen zone countries for 90 days to be eligible for another 90. This is one of the things that makes Croatia and Bulgaria popular, since they are within the EU, but outside schengen. A few countries are starting digital nomad visas, so if you want to stay longer you can look into those.
Not sure what your vibe is, but check out Bansko, Bulgaria as a nice summer and winter destination with a good set of coworking spaces, extremely cheap cost of living and expat/digital nomad community. Lisbon and Chiang Mai are also very popular in the DN community. Really a lot of this would depend on the time of year for me since I like being places when the weather is nice.
And an obligatory mention of health insurance in these covid times. Travel insurance can be quite cheap and the health care systems of other countries can have vastly reduced prices as well, just make sure you have looked into this and made a plan.
Foreign visas are also quite loose. You could get an entrepreneurship visa (see the MDEC site). There's a rapidly growing games and animation industry too, so you might be able to find people you'd like to work with.
As far as I can tell America is more dangerous than most other places.
Healthcare is up to West European standards and is part of the $1000/month. Coronavirus deaths per pop is at #100th rank or so. The current wave is very bad, with daily cases at about 6th globally, but KL area is about 80% adults fully vaccinated now.
Roads are dangerous if you're driving. Corruption is lowish by Asian standards, high by Western standards. It's at a level where you can choose to bribe the nice policeman or report him, but you're unlikely to be arrested on skin color. We don't have many drug lords; organized criminals run government [1] or take on gov contracts.
Would you like statistics instead of anecdotes? A lot don't exist past 2005 or so, and be aware that many official stats abuse statistics [2]. I'm sure you can search the stats yourself, I'm just here to provide a view.
[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/najib-razak-former-malaysian-pr...
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Malaysia/U...
Sometimes it's fairly innocent e.g. a lot of people feel the police are the last resort. People are known to "settle" accidents. Even burglaries; you can have a gentleman's agreement that the robbers will inform all their friends that this house has been robbed and there's nothing left to take, while the victims agree not to tell the cops. Or say, a teenager caught for drugs may not be reported, because the punishment is death. They'll just be expelled, beat up, or let off with a warning.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/after-san-francisco-sho...
Of course this is going to depend on the city, but for example when I went to Europe, I felt so at ease compared to living in America.
My rent per month is about 336USD (live alone), I spend about 400USD per month on foods, and that's because I'm too lazy to eat out that I basically Ubereat everyday. (If you choose Taipei, the cost would be a bit higher, The point to live in Taipei is the convenience and it's more approachable to newcomers)
There's a lot foreigners in Taiwan, so it won't be much trouble to blend in I guess.
We have a excellent control over the pandemic, we welcome you as long as you respect the rules and are willing to self-discipline (especially in this pandemic).
Here I got a Discord server that a lot of members are foreigners in Taiwan: https://discordapp.com/invite/zFBqpET
To be honest, the overall situation is usually better then I expected, international/domestics politics, economic, etc.
Do war breaks out tomorrow? I don't know, it could be, but it never happened in these years even though they threaten every year to subdue us.
I was actually thinking Kaohsiung.
How is it for an English speaker ?
I really just want some place quiet and cheap
Also, it's a total opposite of "some place quiet" :) All the major Taiwanese cities are very densely populated, busy and loud.
They seem to have faster internet speeds than some western countries like the UK and Germany. They seem lower on crime too: https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2...
Outside Europe there are lots of others, but I don't know about internet speed and crime rate. Just that the culture would be very different from the US. You can sort by monthly income here https://www.worlddata.info/cost-of-living.php
I agree that sometimes it might be hard to detect when a government is slipping from a populist phase to outright fascism, but in this case the overwhelming amount of evidence makes it clearcut.
And independently from any possible interpretation, when a government tell you explicitly that you are not welcome, ignore the warning at your own peril.
In a small secondary city you have a much lower chance of meeting ex pats to talk to (depending of course on the country)
One should absolutely, 100% make a good faith effort to learn the language of any country you intend to long-term reside in.
It's for your own health. For my two cents, it'll massively improve your standing in the community because you won't seem like some fly-by-night foreigner (common reputation of americans, which is fine when being somewhere as a tourist but not long term) and will allow you to have serious conversations with people or at least give you a reason to try and have conversations with people (who are generally nice about foreigners attempting to pick up the local language).
This is a good ideal but as an expat currently living in East Asia, reality doesn't always match the ideal.
1. Some languages take a dedicated effort to learn in any meaningful way. For example, unless you're a language maestro, you're not going to pick up Chinese with a casual effort. If you're working, have a family, etc., you might not be able to make the kind of concerted, consistent effort required to become proficient.
2. I've been to places where if the locals know you speak the language, they will treat you more like a local, which isn't always a good thing.
3. In terms of having serious conversations, keep in mind that language ≠ culture. In some places, the biggest barrier to overcome is culture, not language.
Also, in my own experience traveling and living abroad, there really isn't a "fly-by-night foreigner" stereotype that's applied uniquely to Americans. In fact, as an American, in lots of places, locals will be really interested to talk to you because a) American pop culture is so well known globally and b) they don't encounter Americans nearly as frequently as they do nationalities who tend to travel more than Americans. For instance, in much of Asia, pre-pandemic there were a lot more Australians and Europeans than Americans.
In lots of places, your "standing in the community" will be based on socioeconomic and residency factors. For example, where I live currently, the fact that I'm American, have residency through business ownership, live in a luxury apartment, etc. affects how I am perceived more than my inability to speak the language.
So pretty similar to the last 18 months.
If you want the best food, go to Karachi.
Come on man, don't mislead others like this. Everyone here knows you go to Lahore for good food :)
Between that and this recent thread on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/pakistan/comments/pb5l2k/how_can_yo...
I had been ranking it lower on my travel wish-list.
Sure they have nice mountains, but you have those in much safer places as well.
When someone recommends Pakistan I feel like they’re saying: “Sure, Hell is a bit hot but it has great view”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...
Access to all sorts of nature and activities, affordable housing (big apartments, could even find a nice detached house for less than $500), great food from around Europe, great selection of restaurants/fast food, easy access to the rest of Europe and the world, lovely people who will speak English enthusiastically (maybe not that well though) and of course great Internet for very cheap.
$1000/mo without paying local taxes is enough for all of the above.
In the cities, crime is very low if you're worried (the criminals moved west lol), bureaucracy is on par with Germany (OK that means it's shit), corruption is very low. Whole damn country is a hidden jewel of Europe. Just maybe not that affordable to locals heh.
The most "stereotypical" answer is Thailand, which offers cheap internet, food, month-to-month accommodations, friendly to visa runners (hopping over the border for a day and coming back into country every X months to reset your visa), quite a bit to do, and is also pretty safe.
But it's so bloody hot!
Most places do offer 6 month visas for artists and for things like what you are doing, but you should try and sort out this plan before you arrive at your destination, because once there you may find it harder to turn your tourist visa into something else.
Either that or you will have to travel to multiple places that do not share the same travel restrictions.
Pros - Large spirited startup community
Negatives - High levels of crime. Snow and cold weather in the winter months.
As I've experienced trying to rent a place in SF, in Brazil even largest cities are _waaay_ easier. You'd have to talk directly to an owner (since it would be difficult for you to prove income) but it wouldn't be a problem finding them and renting for less than a year.
Language will not be a problem, there's a startup scene if you feel like talking shop, and plenty of places to see and visit. You'd have all the infrastructure to stay for a long time.
By far the best place to live in Brasil is São paulo (state) countryside. Very safe cities, close to urban centers, not expensive at all. Santos is also pretty nice but 1k might fall short.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_municipalities_in_S%C3...
You can go pretty far with 1k USD here. Also pretty well served in terms of free healthcare, but I don't know how it works for foreigners.
The south can be pretty nice and chill compared to the capital (see Canada vs US), but you have less services the more you are in rural areas. Dunno how the prices are there, though. Capital's downtown can be very calm compared to the hell of Santiago's (too much peasants on the road!), but in Santiago you have museums and All-the-nice-stuff(tm) like architecture and European-like roads, metro to everywhere,etc. It can feel like living in another country sometimes, but some things costs more.
Same with Valparaíso or Viña, doesnt look that good but at least you have beaches and a lot of services.
Beware our spanish dialect, we use lots of loanwords and nonstandard stuff sometimes...
Move to a big city in Vietnam. Pay less than $400 for a 1 bedroom serviced apartment (they clean it ~3 times per week, usually they do your laundry). You can get vegan food pretty easily, it's hot in the summer but you can just stay indoors with AC or go to businesses with AC. Tons of mall and theathers. Movie tickets are $2-$4, double that for soda + popcorn. A cheap meal will be $2, even less if you have a light lunch (think bánh mì) for $1. I'd usually spent $5 per meal or more just to eat foreign food after getting homesick. You can live in a trendier part of town by paying slightly more and be within walking distance of trendy western cafes/restaurants. You can take a motorbike taxi (pretty comfy outside of rush hour) for $5 all the way across town (20km) and a lot less if it's a shorter distance. During rush hour I like to take a car and that'll be $10 for a 9km trip usually.
Plane tickets to other cities will be $40 one-way for vacation/travel purposes. Cheaper hotels $20/night and visiting beautiful beaches is very accessible. Travel to nearby countries (Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore, China) for around $200 in airfare. It's a great staging ground for the area.
You seem American, so you can get a 1 year tourist visa (just need to get out of the country every 3 months, use it to visit another country for a few days) without any additional documents (no financial documents, etc).
Sold my house not long ago, moved to Morgantown, and I'm renting now. My rent for around 900 sq ft is sub $700. Electric + water + Comcast is a combined $100, that covers all of my utilities. I'm under $800 for rent + utilities and under $1,000 for rent + utilities + food.
Crime is low, as is the murder rate; I don't think there has been a murder here in roughly five years. The Internet is great (Comcast goes up to 1.2gbps here for $80/month, but I don't have a use for that). There's a decent bus system that goes to most parts of the city and is cheap to use. The area, and really the state in general, is overwhelmingly green; drive a short distance in any direction and you've escaped civilization. There's skiing an hour away in the Winter, and a few popular lakes within that distance as well. Oddly housing prices are higher than they should be for the income levels of the region, and it has been that way for a long time, so that's a downside (but this is relatively speaking, as you can buy a nice house here for under $400k; for anyone working in tech remote it's not expensive). It is a boring, docile, quiet region, and that's not everyone's cup of tea; the restaurants are lacking, and there's no consequential nightlife; the nearest relevant city, Pittsburgh, is 80 minutes away.
In the US, university cities - which the US has a lot of - are often the hidden gems of combining safe (low crime, low murder rate) + a relatively low cost of living.
Pros:
-you get a free healthcare coverage.
-cost of life is reasonable (again, outside of big cities where accomodation is expensive).
-internet connection is good and cheap.
-you will enjoy a few benefits after some paper work. Ex.: the RSA, which is around 500€ you get with very little conditions (not having any revenue, being at least for 3 months in France, having a regular visa, etc.).
-you can legally start to earn money by being declared as auto-entrepreneur, with very little paper work (also with a regular working visa, and with some revenue cap).
Cons:
-language: better find some friend who can speak the language, especially when dealing with the administration.
-check carefully where you settle beforehand, France is one of the most crime-prone country in Europe (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...).
To be honest, I would not recommend it because of the last point.
But I think for European countries France is on the expensive side, but it's true that you get healthcare, and you can make do with 1k
[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/232564/robbery-rate-in-t...
The upsides: lots of peace and quiet, excellent infrastructure, almost no crime, progressive Scandinavian values, almost everybody speaks English.
The downsides: long dark winter, sparsely populated, quiet people don't actively seek interaction with newcomers.
Probably not ideal unless you're serious about just huddling down to work.
Chile is also 8th in the world in Fixed Broadband. source: https://www.speedtest.net/global-index
Living in other regions will be MUCH cheaper, but they tend to be more simple (outside the tourists hubs).
- $1k allows you to comfortably live a upper middle class life-style
- It has a thriving tech scene, lots of interesting startups coming up (I know because I just had to close mine) and lots of techies looking for work.
- $1k also pays the salary of a decent developer there
- It is culturally very different to the US and offers interesting perspectives
Things I did not enjoy:
- A quite "negative" post-colonial mind-set. I struggled to deeply connect with locals because there is a big divide. This is a complicated topic imo.
- Traffic in Nairobi is bad
And nice beaches aren't far away.
There are homes for sale for as low as $80k, so you can not only live cheap but build equity.
It’s a splurge on your budget but Google Fiber is available.
Grandview is the poor side of town and many people live very cheap. The amenities of the KC area are nearby, many of them free. The parks are great.
I love the Colombian caribbean coast, so that is why is my first recommendation to the OP, the weather is perfect almost all year round, and with a modest budget he can definitively have a moderate (and even higher) lifestyle with no much compromises.
This means to assure that you can get a solid tan before the arrival, keep a low-key profile and try to keep your mouth shut in crowded places to hide your non Colombian accent, even if your Spanish is fluid.
Cheaper than USA for sure, but also not a fan of the food in Colombia either. Or most of South America when compared to Asia. :D
Climate is on the other hand, winters could be cold and summers unpleasantly hot so in that regard Balkans could be better.
All those countries will cost you far less than 1k usd per month, given you avoid the capital city center and other hot spot where rent is double price.
Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania.
Why these countries:
* cheap (this is why Greece is not there)
* Christian i.e. culturally closer to America than say Turkey or Albania or Bosnia)
* 0-wokeness (if you are LGBTQ you will probably find it a bit more difficult, but Tinder/Grindr works so you can definitely find people for sex)
* good internet for near 0 cost
Probably best to pick the capital of each of them, or a large coastal (or mountain) town.
Rest is super cheap. $20 for really fast internet. $5 for all you eat 4g phone connection. Netflix here is also very cheap at $10. $200 for groceries would fetch all kinds of good fresh veggies. $150 for a maid to clean, wash and cook etc. Rest you can use up on ordering food (roughly $5-10 per meal)...huge number of eating out and ordering in options. Delivery apps are everywhere so no need to go out. Uber is there for going around. Medical is really cheap compared to USA. You can get really good insurance policy for say $300 per annum which will cover everything and then some. Weather of Bangalore is really nice. Never too hot
If you wan't similar culture, go for Eastern Europe capital cities. In Belgrade where I am from you can get 10gbps internet at home where there is fiber, if no fiber then 200-300mbps cable.
In Thailand and Bali I also experienced very good 4g internet and good fiber optic cable net.
Obviously living in big city like Milan or Rome costs around 1500-2000€/month for living.
Digital nomads feel like something in between.
If you go to Sicily you should more worry about you how much good food you will eat rather than organized crime :)
After the recent riots in Kwazulu-Natal, it seems kind of wild.
That is not to say security is not a serious concern in many of these places, but you can lower the risk substantially by choosing the right neighborhoods etc.
Most of the crime happens in the dodgy areas (ironically - poor people suffer the most from crime).
The cost of share housing hasn't gone up by a huge amount either. I am currently renting out the down stairs of my house (its dual living) for $150 a week per room (2 rooms). Each room gets a 2nd study room as well. Again this is in a nice neighbourhood about 2.5km from the CBD.
And nowadays it's even better because the USD-BRL rate is about 5-something. For a comparison, 1K USD is about what I spend every month to live - and I definitely don't cook beyond just breakfasts and some snacks/sandwiches. So I lunch in restaurants every single day, I live in a quite comfortable apartment, etc. - I mean, I'm not "stretching myself to spend as minimum as possible". In fact, 1K USD is about 4x the BR minimum wage, and about 2-3x the "common" income of people.
I live in Fortaleza, a very sunny city which is close to some incredibly beautiful beaches. Search for "jericoacoara" on Google and you'll know what I'm talking about (Jeri tends to be a bit expensive tho, due to heavy presence of tourists - but not much).
Fun fact: it's quite common to hear about gringos coming around and deciding to stay. You'll find some French and Italian restaurants in Jeri and/or Jijoca - and lots of gringos, of course.
- Rent: $430 A secure and modern 3 bedroom flat in Karsiyaka (the most popular neighbourhood)
- Utilities: $50 (electricity, gas, water etc.)
- Internet: $13 for 100Mbps
- Food: For $500 per month, you can eat like kings in Turkey.
- Transport: It costs $0.5 to get to the airport by train from Karsiyaka.
- Eating out: For $50, you can have a great dinner for two.
Because nationals have a social net of family and friends that tourists don't have. Because nobody knows you, so the landlord is taking a higher risk, and because locals have more information about the place (were to go for eat cheap, business or streets to avoid, etc...).
Being able to blend with the background can be a big advantage even if the place is a little more expensive. Your personal circumstances (food that you don't like, can't eat by religious reasons, etc) must be taken in mind also.
This thread is highly reassuring to me. I spent six months traveling around SEA in 2014 on ~$1k/month. It was pretty easy to stick to that budget even with the cost of moving around. Seven years later, I had mostly assumed that a $1k/month existence was hard to come by unless you are willing to live in relative poverty - apparently that is not the case.
Hopefully inflation and the post-pandemic travel boom do not change this much.
You will probably not be able to live in luxury areas but will be pretty doable even in large cities.
Note that living even living in a large city things will be difficult without speaking Portuguese, but you can order pretty much anything to be delivered to your house so will be able to use Google Translate without relying on its speech related functionalities.
You seem to be an American, so you will almost certainly require a visa before you can come here but I think it will be easy.
A few recommendations:
* Get a CPF number (SSN equivalente) as soon as you can, ideally even before arriving in the country. I think you can apply online and show the original documents at the embassy. (Seriously, almost anything e-commerce related will ask for your CPF but it is almost always optional in regular physical shops)
* Get an RNE card as soon as you can. This way you can leave your passport safely at home.
* Get a local phone number with mobile internet and install Whatsapp (almost anyone here uses it)
* If you stay in Brazil for around a year you may owe taxes here. The good news is that the filing is electronic the bad is that it is still confusing.And you won't have to worry about cooking or cleaning. Every day delicious buffets and room service :-) you could even keep switching hotel and do some lazy traveling. I do this once a year but only for a couple weeks because I have a family to come back to. I feel reborn each time
You can do the same in winter if you fancy skiing in Bulgaria
And the food is amazing everywhere
Petty crime is always on the table though.
Unfortunately, if ideograms is all you have in the place, it will take quite some time and effort to be proficiently integrated.
Weather may be a bit more of an issue though (especially in the summertime), but cost of living is still very very reasonable.
Agreed on the language though -- Taiwan in general is a bit tougher to navigate for non-Chinese speakers. You may be able to get by with just English in Taipei, but in the rural areas or in the central/southern urban centers, it'll be a bit tougher.
Medellin would be my recommendation, very safe, unbeatable weather, access to high speed internet, a trendy startup culture and decent level of English-speaking people, non-stop daily flights to major US cities and same time zone as the US.
Source: I lived in Medellin and spent years living in Latin America.
I thought this was a euphemism for something but, no, an actual thing: https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissacristinamarquez/2020/07/...
Who'd have thought...
In the US/UK, one would mostly bet on Cloudflare, Akamai, AWS, GCP outages... There, it's either sharks, or some locals think it's an enemy country that's close by that's doing sabotage.
SHARKNESS
I spent 4 months in Vietnam in 2007 in HCMC. Rent was $300/mo for a sweet pad down the street from the Ben Thanh market. Food was $400/mo, and I didn't cook much at all because street food is cheap and delicious.
However, I'm not sure how this would work out long term, like decades. I couldn't commit to living in a country like that full time. The language barrier would be overwhelming, and I did get tired of friends vanishing after just a few weeks. I'm a het-dude, and the local women I dated really wanted families asap and I wasn't ready -- there are a lot of highly successful women there who I got on with w/o much of a culture barrier since they had studied in US/Europe; I wasn't there doing the creepy-US-dude-looking-for-boomboom thing. Not sure I could have made a life for myself there and been happy into old age. I can't imagine what long term healthcare would be like into my 80's as an expat in Vietnam.
Long term, I share the same sentiments and felt it was time to leave after a hell of a year. On reflection, that year was probably on of the best of my 30+ years on this planet.
I sometimes think of doing it all again, going into an unknown culture and winging it. You learn a lot about yourself that way. Good luck to OP whichever country he chooses!
Contrast: I spent some time in Central America a few years ago, and I found a lot of people who were really unfriendly, or hostile. Mostly because I didn't speak Spanish. Whew did I get yelled at a lot. One guy at a Panamanian IT cafe called me out when I asked for the password in English. He shouted: "You come here with all your money and expect us to do everything for you and you can't even speak our language?" Yikes. Whoops. He was 100% right.
TBH, because of that incident I'm still embarrassed to this day when I have to travel to a country for work and can only speak the few phrases I crammed on the plane, and then have to point or speak English.
1. Apartment rent, 6 months contract at $1300 + $200 deposit, pay upfront, thus $250 monthly. It is a small apartment 1 common area, 2 tiny bedroom, and tiny balcony
2. Utilities, varying from $30 to $50, mine has 2 AC running almost 24/7, a PC with average 200 to 300 watt power draw, and 5 led light bulbs
3. Meals, 3 times a day for 1 person, $20 daily or $600 monthly (this amount considered fancy meal, you can get way cheaper meals like $2/each, way cheaper if you cook)
4. Internet, up to 100 mbps, $35 monthly. Internet quality like speed and stability will depend on area
5. Phone data, $7 monthly
6. Cigarette, I'm a heavy smoker (almost 2 packs a day), $4 daily thus $120 monthly
In total: ~$1050 I don't count for entertainment, transportation (people mostly use Gojek or Grab), subscription
Experience living in Jakarta from native perspective.
- Language barrier, most people can talk in English, although not that fluent, hand gestures give you more power than talk
- Poor pedestrian side road, if you like to walk
- City full of concretes, green park almost non existent
- Bad air quality
- Noisy if your resident near big road or high way
- Covid-19 related situation, Jakarta not the worse but people here tend to not care about this
Alternative to Jakarta, I would recommend.
- Bandung, cheaper living cost, small city, good air quality on most part, had lived there for 2 years
- Bali, foreigner friendly, especially Ubud area for extra nature scenery, I don't recommend Denpasar
Let me know if you have any question (email on my profile), as a fellow game dev I admire your dedication
The rat race can wait , I think 6 months focused on game dev will get my game to where I need it to be. And if not, at least I had some fun.
Any big cultural shocks.
The big advantage is the plummeting of the Colombian peso in comparison to the US Dollar. 1k USD is almost 4x the minimum wage, and most people make less than the minimum wage and survive so 1k USD for one person puts you in a strong upper middle class actually.
The only caveat is that most people have poor English, so some Spanish is a must. Maybe in Medellin could be different since there is a huge number of expats there, but in Bogotá at least, most people won't speak English.
If you can accept some underdeveloped [some parts may actually positively surprise you] countries, take a look at Georgia, it can be really affordable and give a fairly good quality of life.
"Eastern Europe" (i.e Serbia, Croatia, Montenegro, Slovenia, Bulgaria) can be a little more expensive but plenty to do with $1k. Also, it is actually a lot more developed than you may think. Oh and it's really safe!
As a rule of thumbs if you keep your expenses low, if you can find a place on Airbnb for $500/month, you could easily go with the other $500 for monthly expenses. Even maybe save some money or have some fun!
Islamabad has best views, you better live in the E sector, that's where most foreigners choose to live anyway. And its most close to mountains and you will get amazing views throughout your stay. Also it's probably the greenest city.
For rest of Pakistan, that's the real Pakistan. You will get a lot more stares, and will be more prone to everything that attracts attention.
You can very easily live within 1000USD, in Islamabad, Pakistan.
A $200,000 house would be 200 months of runway at $1,000 a month. And it’s not like you can actually live there for free. You still have property tax, utilities, maybe repairs, maybe HOA.
Then you also have less flexibility to move or scale down if you decide to go for a cheaper place. Every home transaction has a 6% fee just for the real estate agents on top of any other fees, and your house could also lose value.
P.S. - I grew up in that city, before moving out at 26. I still visit though - 1-2 times a year.
1k USD per month is the average monthly salary in Croatia, so you should be fine (especially in smaller cities), unless you overspend by eating out every day.
Here is a video of an American guy living in Split, Croatia (second largest city - very touristy and not that cheap) on $1,400 per month. He is spending $600 on food which means he eats out a lot. Locals spend way less than that on food. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkJSoBLHKaI
I'd recommend Da Nang. A modern, clean city, with both beautiful beaches and mountains, and an international airport.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Lviv?displayCurrenc...
From your link: "Rent Prices in Lviv are 39.98% lower than in Kiev (Kyiv)" (in reality, in many scenarios the difference is greater than that).
Info: securing a three year resident visa in Ukraine is very easy.
Smaller towns in Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Hungary should be also no problem, just forget about top 5 cities in each country, in Bulgaria/Romania maybe even bigger cities, just not capitals.
I would more worry about long term visa situation than about cost.
You also didn't define "living", one thing is sit at home most of the time, cook for yourself and just hang around city without travel, other thing is going to pubs 3 times a week, travelling on weekends etc. Entirely different budgets.
I pay ₹1200 ($16) for solid 300Mbps (up and down), with a 3TB cap. Food is cheap, even in Bangalore which is generally an expensive place to live. For example, you can have a nice nutritious breakfast (dosa and idli) for less than ₹100 ($1.50). Wanna go out for a movie? A top-of-the-line recliner seat ticket will cost you maximum ₹500 ($7).
Rent is a problem in Bangalore, it is disproportionately expensive compared to other smaller cities. You can expect to pay ₹20k ($270) for a proper single studio apartment in a nice locality.
I posted this for living on $2k or less
Otherwise, even a high-cost country like Canada (or the USA) can just about be afforded on $1000 a month if you go out in the sticks and cook for yourself and take transit and walk. But non-residents are looking at that much again, for private health insurance.
I strongly suspect I could get down to 500$ , but I don't want to push it.
I'll note this is not correct. I'm in Morgantown WV and the Internet is great. I'm paying in the low $30s for 200mbps with normal low latency and it's highly reliable, via Comcast. That'll go on up to 1.2gbps if I need it. Speedtest usually comes out to 180-230mbps depending on the test site.
Most populated areas of West Virginia offer typical Comcast-style Internet speeds and prices. If you're living in the middle of nowhere, or a town of 2000 people, it's true that may be a different story. Starlink and local cable providers are your only serious options then.
Set up a base in a Tier II City in North India.
Accomodation around INR 10-15K
1GbPS Broadband: INR- 4000 (+ taxes)- This is now GST so you'd consolidated bill.
Excellent 4G services- INR 300 with 1.5-2 GB of data per month. You can also opt for PostPaid.
Living expenses around 15-20K (including trips for groceries+ Uber/Ola- tide hailing). 24 hours electricity- around INR 708 per unit. If you run AirCon for the whole day, youd not exceed around INRO 10k.
I am assuming you have yourself covered for Netflix etc.
The cities are not exactly bicycle friendly- I ride a cycle to work- but you can negotiate your way around.
Ive been doing the nomad thing for almost 5 years now and the quality of life / $ is unbeatable.
I lived in Medellín for four months a few years back. I'm dying to go back!
To add some numbers: Back in 2016,
- a basic but delicious lunch at the restaurant at the corner used to be ~7,000-8,000 COP (~2-3€ back then)
- rooms in shared apartments could easily be found for ~300,000 COP (~100€) per month (or even less if you're fine with very basic accomodation)
- a nice spacious apartment in one of the high rises was (at least) 1,000,000 COP (so ~300€) per month
USD and EUR have become stronger since then but at the same time the COP has seen some inflation, so I'm not sure what the current price level is.
> Ive been doing the nomad thing for almost 5 years now and the quality of life / $ is unbeatable.
What industry are you in? Is it only remote work that you do or do you (by now) also have people you collaborate with in Medallo?
Most of the prices you list are still roughly correct in 2021. It is getting easier to spend more here but the deals are still around.
I arrived back here for my fourth trip about a week ago with no plans to ever leave. My goal is to do a startup in the tourism sector here.
If you are in town write me an email
> I arrived back here for my fourth trip about a week ago with no plans to ever leave.
Which neighborhood are you planning to move to?
> If you are in town write me an email
Will definitely do!
Da Nang, Vietnam. Bit more expensive, $200/month rent on the low end. Friendly people, surprisingly even to Americans. Great air quality, decent enough waves in winter if you surf. Terrible local food, but certain areas cater to foreigners and there the food is excellent ($5 to $15).
Internet is solid in both locations.
Programming is draining on the brain and you need a way to disconnect from your project in order to rest your mind. Tango will provide you with the much needed balance.
This way, you can code during the day, socialize/move your body during the evening at tango classes or practicas and maybe have a great time at a milonga (tango party) once a week.
When you get back to US, you will also come back with a great body skill.
I come from there and while I am living in the EU at the moment, I plan in retiring early and move back soon.
For housing market: https://www.homes.co.jp/chintai/tokyo/map/
https://www.figma.com/blog/design-on-a-deadline-how-notion-p...
All cheap, decent healthcare and if you play your card rights you can avoid downsides (like heavy pollution mentioned).
As a rule of thumb, check all the countries with an average monthly salary below 1k $.
Bonus points if the average monthly salary in the capital city is below 1k $.
Then sort out all the countries with heavy downsides (check HDI).
imho. it heavily depends what you expect from "living", but you could easily live - read: rent a cheap room & eat healthy - with 1000 us$ which roughly equals 900 euro in a lot of cities within the E.U.
out of my head - starting with the most obvious & startup-friendly ones
# berlin (germany) # vienna (austria)
and whole countries # nearly anywhere in the eastern part of austria # nearly anywhere in the cheaper parts of germany - more in the north # anywhere in the central to northern part of portugal - imho. inculding lisbon # nearly anywhere in greece # lot of parts of spain (north, south, islands ... definitly not in catalonia/barcelona or madrid) # in the cheaper parts of italy (south)
east-europe: # nearly any country/place which was formerly known as "eastern-european" / behind the "iron curtain"
br, t
https://www.insider.com/italy-town-maenza-selling-one-euro-h...
Not very popular but that's good because that makes it cheaper and quieter than popluar destinations
This video has other interesting alternatives: https://youtu.be/9aY8_DISMJ0
Do not go somewhere hot with too many distractions. It will ruin your productivity.
I'm not asking to discourage you from moving elsewhere, just out of curiosity.
My suggestion will be somewhere like Ensenada, La Paz (Baja) for the West side. Tlaxcala, Hidalgo, Guanajuato for the center or Merida or Campeche for the east.
Have you looked at rent prices in some of the smaller cities in Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, Utah?
India is an adventure. I don't think I'd work if I go there for 6 months.
hth
Thank me later!
- Georgia
- Ukraine, but not major cities
- Vietnam, but can’t get into the country for a while probably due to corona
- Serbia
Just check Nomad List :D
Istanbul, Turkey:
This will be your cheapest Europe option. People live on literal 300$ here. The food is amazing and cheap, the people treat tourists like kings (be careful for getting overpriced or scammed though), plenty of sights and nightlife, and you are surrounded by water (makes for a nice view while you are riding around)
The cons are that there is high political repression (you can't speak about the govt) and the internet is censored and slow, you need VPN for anything sexual or political.
Bucharest, Romania:
Where I currently live. I live in a 300$/mo studio and my food utilities etc all comes down to 600$ per month max. I have 400$ left for hookers, adding to my travel budget, or medical stuff etc. It's a very liberal country and the people are very chill, lots of natural sights to see and awesome nightlife. The cons are that it's ugly (commie blocs everywhere) and can get dangerous in certain areas at night.
Warsaw, Poland:
I did not really enjoy this city, the people are cold and nationalistic, it was cold all the time and the public transport has very few English translations, but its cheap and has good nightlife.
Berlin, Germany:
Very difficult to survive with 1k a month here especially if you are not single. Has awesome nightlife and food though, people from almost every country in the world and its very diverse and free.
Manila, Philippines:
This was probably the most fun city I visited, great nightlife and beaches, you get your bang for buck for apartments and condos, and also the people are very friendly and helpful to tourists. English speaking rate is very high and it helps being more comfortable there. The crime rate is very high though so if safety is a consideration I would avoid (I have an adventurer personality, you may not, it's fine)
( i'm living with $500 in izmir and my rent is $120 )
Stayed there for six months. Inexpensive, friendly people, generally safe if you stay near the Poblado area and not flaunt your wealth.
Use apps for just about everything and if you’re inclined, cook at home.
Here’s a cost breakdown:
Rent: staying at a 4.5/5 star hotel near Poblado runs you $400-500 USD, check with some of the newer hotels and avoid Booking.com (at least after your two week stay). Hotels will work with you If you try to negotiate long term pricing, some even have bigger and dedicated rooms.
Check out properties with Caracol and AirBnB. The idea is if you negotiate pricing outside the platform, it’s often cheaper for longer term stays.
Food: use Rappi to order your meals, it’s similar to Uber Eats (since discontinued in the country); half the cost of what you’ll usually pay in the US.
Transportation: Uber, DiDi, Cabify.
Loved the country and looking to return next year. Haven’t been able to obtain a visa yet.
Downsides: language barrier can be a problem, but generally there's at least some degree of English knowledge among the younger population. If you happen to know Russian, it'll be even easier since most people understand it there. Also, with COVID, prepare for a LOT of people refusing to mask up or vaccinate. Better get your shots before going.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28179018
Though looks like $1000 might not cut it.
https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/country_result.jsp?cou...
Such a question is common from people who are running away from an unhealthy situation unrelated to geography. If so, maybe cut that off prior to and independently of the move, and then probably move anyway.
Your statement's probably literally true but I assume it's mostly people living with family or other community.
I have a ton of money saved up and I've never gotten a chance to live in another country.
So why not. Worst come to worse I can always come back and proceed to work another 30 years.
I had about 125 square meters in the center of the city, right across from the main university campus, 600/600Mbps unmetered symmetrical fiber with a static ipv4 address ($10 a month from domru), unlimited 4g (a little over $10 from megafon), ordered delivery for literally every meal, and used taxi apps for all my travel.
The bureaucracy and paperwork for existing is probably a fair bit more than what you’d be used to in the US - e.g., needing to register your residence every time you go to a hotel, go back to your apartment, etc. But, the process for actually getting stuff done, like getting an apartment or getting bank account, is actually pretty simple and something you can navigate easily on your own or with any Russian speaking friend.
Healthcare was good too. I had a good experience at the state run hospitals when I, unfortunately, needed surgery; patient staff, quality work, and I didn’t even carry my wallet in and walked out paying nothing. Similarly, ambulances were another painless experience, not even asking for my insurance.
FWIW: I think the typical “nomad” is often quite a bit more right-wing and concerned about taxes and money than I am (don't take offense, just an observation!). The city is fairly liberal for Russia, it’s young, has a nice academic scene, etc. I’m not sure I’d stay forever, but I don’t regret the years I spent there. It was a lot of fun, people were nice, the experiences were wild, and university was great.
Downsides:
- Access to foreign products, electronics, or even things as simple as English books can be lacking.
- There's nothing anywhere near as convenient as Amazon, so be prepared for visits to actual stores when you need a cable or something and have fun navigating aliexpress, avito, and similar.
- Racism is still a thing and even though actually getting my apartment was easy, finding a landlord willing to rent to an "Omar" was a lot harder ("for slavs only" is an unfortunately common thing in realty listings). Similarly, my Chinese friends experienced a fair bit of serious discrimination when the pandemic first began. If you're light-skinned and have a white-sounding name, I don't imagine you'll face any trouble, though.
- Although Tomsk is significantly more liberal than many other areas, and I don't think anything particularly terrible would happen, it's probably not got the most vibrant of LGBT atmospheres on the planet.
- Weather is just brutal. From the windchill of -51 I experienced to the 30+ summers.
- Get an apartment with a boiler. Most people use city-provided hot water for showers, but that means every summer, you'll lose your hot water for a week or so while they do they annual maintenance otherwise.
The cost of a van/camper is not crazy, internet in LA and SF is easy to come by, cheap food is plentiful if you're willing to accomodate your diet...
and there's no lock-in or insane sunk cost. "What could go wrong" for you in a country like Georgia has a lot of unkowns, vs in LA you'd pretty much know how to figure it out. Visiting friends and family, deciding to bail, etc. all easier.