Kobol Team Is Pulling the Plug from “Helios64 Open Source NAS”
blog.kobol.io
blog.kobol.io
Especially that they are open with reasons why, what they feel they could have done better, and releasing blueprints allowing others to pick up.
No doubt 2020/2021 must have been the most challenging years in decades for an indie team to launch a new hardware project like this.
I was looking quite seriously at the Kobol64 last year; the only thing that eventually made me not preorder was realizing the RAM would not be sufficient for my purposes (ZFS-backed Glusterfs nodes).
It worked okay for simple storage tasks and it's definitely great as a rpi alternative for simple setups, but not for any kind of serious cluster
I still hope that there'll one day be a RISC-V or ARM board with a 10gbe port, 4-8 SATA ports, and 32gb-64gb ram
Seems like the only option for redundancy at the hardware level for storage is refurbished server hardware or spending a lot of time on a DIY setup
If you don't enjoy DIYing too much I'd recommend the mATX ones - the form factor and cooling alternatives for the mITX are... unorthodox.
But yeah, comparable non-x86 accessible for prosumers will be years away.
Which type of case/chassis are you using for your set-up and how many nodes are you running?
* I gave up on finding a chassis that wasn't either gigantic, too tight, or crazy expensive. They run naked resting on cork-boards on a very cheap DIY shelf that I've hung some 140mm fans on. Looks a bit cyberpunk and swapping drives is super easy. You may have better luck with chassis if you're in the US.
* ECC RAM supported, which is nice. I've understood you can't surveil the ECC, so I've seen it described as "semi-ECC". This is a Ryzen thing, not an ASROCK-RACK-thing.
* ECC DDR4 SODIMMs are expensive and rare. If you need ECC and lots of RAM but don't care about the small form factor, a bigger board will be a lot more cost-efficient. I got my sticks from Nemix and Samsung.
* Intially I had stability issues and errors in memtest. Completely disappeared after putting them behind a UPS; turned out the culprit was power fluctuations in my previous house.
* They need a PSU with EPS (my old leftover 15y/o PSU in the closet only booted the IPMI, not the board itself. Silverstone SFX 450W is great and cheap)
* (Specific for mITX) The CPU socket has bastard Intel fittings. I got Scythe Shoten and Noctua on there fine in the end, but it took some anxious-inducing creativity with M3 screws/nuts and DIY spacers,
* IPMI and monitoring are great for initial setup and if something would go wrong. Flashing UEFI/BIOS is a breeze.
* Apart from the on-board SATA I plopped in 4xM.2 PCIe bifurcator cards from 10Gtek - so besides the boot drive I can have 4xM2 NVMe drives on each board. Works great.
* I'd really really like to figure out something more compact PSU-wise - either Meanwell or Pico-style - but electricity is not my strong side and despite researching quit a bit I still haven't figured out exactly what I should buy and how I would hook that up.
Overall I'm happy. It's quite impressive how much IO you can get out of such a small board. But since I moved to a bigger house and the mATX model came out I'd have bought that instead if it was today.
In case you haven't checked out the servethehome forums already there are some people writing about their boards there as well.
Oh, and since you mentioned redundant storage: Glusterfs is great, except when it isn't. I have issues with it every now and then (files being stuck in heal without going in split-brain requiring low-level manual intervention, and fuse mounts on other nodes randomly disconnecting with "transport error" until I manually remount, despite always having min 2/3 nodes continuously online). I kind of wish I went with Ceph or LizardFS or something instead but I sunk so much time into Gluster already and have better things to do than start over with something new - and who knows if the grass would actually be greener.
I live in a rather small apartment (56 square metres), so I'm trying to find an acceptable trade-off between noise and space. I'm in Europe, so sourcing parts can unfortunately be a bit of a challenge, so I'll probably have to be creative to solve some issues (which honestly is also fun)
I had found a couple of 2U racks that could hold 2 mITX boards, but the lack of cooling options made me nervous whether it would get too hot
With you now writing that you would have gone with the mATX board if you were making the build today, I think I'll probably go with that instead - especially since I'd like to use ECC ram, and you mention that ECC SODIMMs are expensive and difficult to find
I've been reading a lot of reviews on servethehome, but haven't gone through their forums yet. I'll make sure to check it out - thanks for the tip!
I haven't yet decided whether I'll go with ceph, gluster, or something else entirely. I'm leaning towards ceph, but I've read several warnings about running only 3 nodes in a ceph cluster, so it's (once again) a matter of figuring out a good trade-off
In any case - you've definitely helped me out here and I really appreciate that you took the time to write such a comprehensive explanation
If you don't mind, how much power/watts does one of these draw continously?
Assuming you need AC->DC an SFX power supply is probably your best option. It's hard to find generic power supplies that have power good, 5VSB, and remote PS_ON. The generic supplies of reasonable cost are almost certainly less efficient as well.
So sure, it's DIY and some work, but putting together the NAS itself and putting together the cabinet, including the cooling and wiring, only took one weekend.
It consumes more power compared to ARM, but I'm cooling a 4-story house with 18 foot ceilings in Texas anyway, so it's not a noticeable difference.
I thought this was the main criteria why such projects based upon RISC-V even exist.
based on NXP’s outstanding 16 core LX2160A Arm Cortex A72 (2GHz) offering up to 64GB DDR4 (dual channel) and up to 40GbE.
https://www.solid-run.com/arm-servers-networking-platforms/h...
Any complaints I could have would honestly be nitpicking - it might honestly be a bit overkill for my use case.
The price isn't too bad considering what a x86 alternative would cost (especially considering the electrical bill)
Thank you for bringing them to my attention!
Now the challenge will be, whether I can find a European seller
One of the huge challenges with building niche, enthusiast hardware is that you have fewer resources than a bigger company, yet enthusiast customers tend to be far more demanding than normal. The Helios products look fantastic, but even in this HN thread you can see potential customers explaining why they wanted more out of the product (Mostly RAM). I have a feeling their fate would have been a lot of people agreeing it was a cool product but then going off and buying something else after doing some research.
ARM boards are hard right now because we’re not quite to the point of powerful, high-RAM systems being affordable, so most things are a compromise. In retrospect, I wish they would have applied their obviously fantastic product engineering skills to building an awesome NAS case first that accepted a standard Mini-ITX board. From there, they could have partnered with a Nano-ITX board vendor to offer a smaller V2, then as they picked up momentum they could branch into the custom all-in-one solution. Trying to jump straight to a full custom product from top to bottom is extremely hard, to say the least.
I get the feeling that most ARM SoC vendors had made their first 64-bit products by just pasteing a 64-bit CPU into their previous 32-bit SoC design. It is only recently that reasonably cheap 8GB boards have become available.
There are many legacy IPs which only support 32bit bus, we have to use them as is in the new 64bit SoCs, I think the 32bit GIC can be considered the same as those case, can we add CONFIG_ZONE_DMA32 support in GIC driver?
https://lore.kernel.org/linux-rockchip/874kg0q6lc.wl-maz@ker...
Note that this is in regards to their new rk356x platform, which supports up to 8 GB of RAM.
Their model is to qualify a customer by volume and then provide a "solution": IC with a custom linux or android on it, including undocumented drivers etc.
That being said, Kobos never delivered quality hardware. My Helios4 died, likely the PSU, early Helios64 needed a botch job for their LAN Ports to work correctly and they never delivered on the ECC RAM needed for a NAS. Performance on the Helios4 was also absolutely crappy, never being able to deliver gigabit speeds over the LAN Port. I wish them all the best though, my personal hardware is going to be x86 for the foreseeable future unless ARM makes MAJOR strides in terms of linux compatibility
Somewhat similar scopes but without both of those:
https://wiretrustee.com/raspberrypi-cm4-sata-board/ (not launched yet)
https://shop.allnetchina.cn/collections/sata-hat/products/pe... (they also have an enclosure kit)
https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-hc4/ (just 2 drives; I have one as a sink for automated ZFS snapshots using zrepl; a friend is using one for syncthing+apple time machine sink)
If you want something within the coming ~2 years and any of the above don't fit your bill I think you'll have to resort to x86 and an external UPS. I'd love to be proven wrong, though.
https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/n277ip/raspber...
Regarding the 5 bay storage, you can buy backplanes with pull out bays for 5*3.5 disks that would fit into 3*5.25 bays. A search for "3 to 5 sata backplane" returns some products.
The cynic in my says another company will probably pop up shortly with a new Icarus128 NAS board.
And supply chain disruptions have been so extremely painful in the past year, why doesn't the industry do this? It seems like if you could provide guarantees about interchangeability, that translate to guarantees about availability, people would be willing to pay a premium.
Rather than hoping or praying things will change ( it wont ), I do appreciate their honest take on the issue.
What's the smallest ECC NAS board on the market right now?
I ended up getting the Helios64 as it fitted both my needs pretty well and got to support an amazing project - hopefully the community can live on and help each other out!
Thank you Kobol team and thank you for the openness and transparency the whole time.