Comment by blackboxxx | Hacker News Reader

Comment by blackboxxx | Hacker News Reader

When an email tries to be sneaky with the old "Manage my Preferences" trick, I flag it as spam. They should know better.

BONUS: if anywhere in the email they mention the word "webinar", they're gone.

Seconded. If I can't unsubscribe from an email with one click (at the very most two), then I mark it as spam.

Why do people mark non-spam as spam? Why do they boast about it?

In what sense is an unsolicited and unwanted marketing email not spam?

They didn't say it was unsolicited or unwanted. They just said if they could not unsubscribe in one or two clicks they'd mark it as spam, regardless if it was spam.

Why the down vote?

Doesn't the fact that they immediately want to unsubscribe make it quite obvious that the email is unsolicited?

I have been getting spam from companies who obviously got my email address from someone who sold it to them, for quite a while now. Even though their messages have clear unsubscribe links, list real mailing addresses, and use reputable email marketing companies, that doesn't make it any less spammy.

> Doesn't the fact that they immediately want to unsubscribe make it quite obvious that the email is unsolicited?

No, not at all. Spam is typically defined as bulk and indiscriminate.

By clicking 'unsubscribe', the implied intent is that the email is unwanted. So I can either mark an email as 'unwanted' by clicking 'unsubscribe' or by clicking 'report spam'. I'll always give the sender the benefit of the doubt and try to unsubscribe, but if any action is required on my part other than clicking the link, I take the path of least resistance and simply click 'report spam'. Either way, I'll stop getting those emails.

But what if it's transactional or something you signed up for? Something merely unwanted is not by definition spam.

"Why the down vote?"

Downvotes are used nowadays as a way to disagree with your standpoint or reasoning.

I can understand if the reasoning is in bad faith but downvoting merely for disagreement seems like abuse.

Right, and there once was a time when voting was used that way, but that time has been gone for quite a while now.

> They just said if they could not unsubscribe in one or two clicks they'd mark it as spam, regardless if it was spam.

While I'm not limiting spam to this definition, spam is any email that cannot be unsubscribed to in one or two reasonable clicks. If I discover email I was getting is spam, I will mark it as spam.

Does "any email" include transactional messages? Emails you requested? Emails from friends and coworkers?

Not all email must include unsubscribe capabilities.

That argument is pedantic and does not contribute positively to the discussion. Do you believe that the person talking about unsubscribe really means email from his mother-in-law?

Let's use our common sense, shall we? Do you think he marks as spam emails from his coworkers because they don't include unsubscribe links thar onl require one click?

If you don't think he meant that, let's not discuss it regardless of how one might twist his words out of context.

You're downvoting because of that?

The person specifically said "any email that does not have a one-click unsubscribe". Two of the three categories I mentioned were not "emails from gramma" but that's the example you choose to focus on?

I really do think he means that he marks as spam messages that are not spam. And the biggest problem with spam prevention is the false marking as spam. It's much worse to miss a legit email than to receive spam.

> I really do think he means that he marks as spam messages that are not spam.

You honestly think I mark as spam receipts, emails I ask for, and email from friends? Did I really need to put the disclaimer in? I thought "While I'm not limiting spam to this definition," was enough.

Here, I'll help you.

Just to be clear, I also don't mark as spam email from my half-sisters, half-brothers, brother, sisters-in-law, brother-in-law, mother-in-law, father-in-law, step-mother, step-father, and my wife. Oh wait, forgot to mention all my cousins, and the rest of the family! Clearly, I must mark them as spam.

I don't think that I was boasting. However, if it being seen as boasting leads to more companies allowing one-click unsubscribes, then I see it as a good thing.

I generally don't just mark messages as spam because I don't want them in my inbox - that's what archiving mail is for (things which I don't need to see but might want to look at in the future). Spam is for when I don't want to receive messages and I can't find a way to get myself taken off of the mailing list after reading through one of the messages.

Because, no matter whether or not it's technically spam, people will stop sending such messages if they get "marked as spam" often enough. Either that, or GMail will start silently dropping their mail - either way, my inbox is clean. Making such a policy public can only help.

[Note that I don't mark such e-mail as spam, if only because there's no convenient way to do so over IMAP.]

I feel like the only reasonable response, then, is to start madking all email sent from people who believe this as spam, so they can get a sense of what this feels like.

Seriously, though: people who abuse the system like that,--whether they are giving products bad ratings for reasons unrelated to the product, using the PayPal dispute system as a threat (or seriously on everything they purchase from everyone online as it let's them get stuff for free), or downvoting comments on HN out of retaliation for a lost argument--need some kind of meta-moderation to keep their data from affecting the system.

In what way is unsolicited and unwanted email not spam?

I also mark any mail where unsubscribe is more difficult than a couple of clicks as spam, though I don't have the instant hate for "webinar" mails that you do (I've never even noticed that as a thing, so I have no opinion one way or another).

This reply is pretty much a public +1 (I also upvoted the post). If points were visible I wouldn't have bothered with the reply and would have just gone with the upvote, but I'm trying to make sure any email marketing folks out there who may be reading this realize you aren't the only one who does this and they are ultimately hurting themselves by making it more difficult to unsubscribe than it needs to be.

Yep, I honestly think it's the best way to deal with it, offer me a one-click unsubscribe or get your emails marked as spam.

First, I think 2 clicks is ok. Second, I don't think it's admirable to mark non-spam as spam.

if it's illegal (e.g. manage prefs thing) and you don't want it, then it counts as spam.

2 click is fine tho.

They didn't say it was illegal or that they didn't want it. That's my point.

Why the down vote?

If I didn't sign-up for it then I'm marking it as spam thank you very much.

I've noticed that if I flag something like this in gmail as spam it still gets through, repeatedly.

Same with Yahoo Mail. So annoying. You'd think that after two times, the service would realize that I don't want to receive e-mail from them.

What's the problem with webinars?

Fine if you arrange one but spam emails suggesting you might want to join one are the penis enlargement of business, I get a lot of them for stuff I have no interest in buying.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com