Airbnb offers free accommodation for 20k Afghan refugees
bbc.com
bbc.com
Eventually, though, they'll have to actually live in the countries they reside in as, one has to assume, permanent residents. I helped sponsor my interpreter's visa years ago when I finished my time as an infantry platoon leader in Afghanistan. He landed in [undisclosed location] and has a stable job driving for a trucking company. He hates it here. He wants to go back. Do you want to know why? Because we let our girls go to school, because there aren't enough Muslims around him, and because he misses his home country, warts and all. He left because he was afraid that the Taliban would kill him, and he was probably right. He's probably still right. We rarely talk anymore, which is sad, but that's the reality. There's a wide range of views that interpreters held, and to be sure mine is absolutely not meant to be a representation of everyone coming from there.
I don't really have a point other than to say that resettling refugees isn't as simple as "oh just give them a place to sleep and some cash and the rest will take care of itself", like it's via osmosis or something that they inculcate the values and culture of the new "home" they find themselves in. This isn't software you can install, it's much harder than that.
How did the United States cause the Taliban control of Afghanistan?
The Taliban were in control before the US invasion following the 9/11 attacks. Although the US failed in training the Afghan military, it seems like the Taliban would be in control regardless. The alternative to occupation would be a more complete destruction of the country.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_mujahideen#Relationship...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Taliban#Foreign_inf...
After the occupation ended, a bunch of the groups signed onto the Peshawar Accord to create a government, but a few of the groups (notably Gulbuddin, who later razed Kabul) didn't, and sparked a civil war. Pakistani intelligence (ISI) backed Gulbuddin, and amidst the bloodshed the Taliban emerged as a force countering all the warlords tearing the place apart. Sensing the winds change, ISI backed the Taliban, who cleaned up the civil war and seized control. I'm not sure what radicalized the Taliban, other than seeing the bloodshed as products of moral failing and not heeding the Qur'an.
From Wikipedia, the early Taliban actually participated in peaceful interfaith debates with Christians and Hindus while it was in Pakistan. I'd like to know how it got so extreme.
Not exactly about the radicalisation but I found this a good background to the current state of the country.
Whoops.
You seem to be conflating a theocratic regime being in charge with the bloodshed of war, or as you call it, occupation. A great many people died and were horribly injured throughout the 20 year war. But you think the wrong regime would have been a “more complete destruction?”
So after the initial invasion and defeat of Taliban forces, what is the correct move? Occupation didn’t work, but leaving after overthrowing the theocracy just allows the theocracy to reform.
It seems to me that a more thorough elimination of the remaining Taliban is the only other option here. I am legitimately asking what the other options are.
China will reportedly offer infrastructural investment in exchange for a modicum of peace. There are also many natural resources which China is eyeing.
>That investment gradually leads to deradicalization, both because people become better educated and happier, but also because they start to see the US as a legitimate friend.
Nope. They see us as rubes.
I think this is a stupid objective, however. It would be astronomically expensive, it would've cost untold amounts of blood, and "doing Colonialism" in the 21st century is frowned upon for good reason. What would we gain? What would the Afghans gain? Money from mineral extraction? In the end, we did psuedo-colonialism anyway, and it got us nothing but dead Americans and dead Afghans.
I also used to repeat the simplistic trope the US made the taliban de-facto since the US made the Muhahideen to defeat the russian backed puppet government. I think it has elements of truth, but there's obviously a lot more to it.
It's not "there's nothing here" simple either. The Taliban might not have taken root if the whole war-by-proxy hadn't happened. Some stuff I read suggests modern Afghanistan is like Kurdistan: unfathomably hard to make work, against the political realities of the neighbours and the different pressures inside the country.
Everyone understands that, including the Airbnb people. I don't think there's actually anybody mistaking the context as you're suggesting. Over a million poor immigrants - most of them de facto refugees trying to escape from very dangerous third world poverty in Latin America - enter the US every year with essentially nothing, looking to start a new life. Tens of millions of people from that context across the last 30 years alone. This is an old, understood, persistent process in the US.
Which apparently failed quite dramatically for my interpreter since he still holds views that clash with the mean understanding of what's politically acceptable in the United States. Perhaps that's my fault. To that end, no I don't think everyone "understands" this.
I suppose I mean that if he now has residency, he might have choices. He could (obviously, at some considerable expense) relocate. It is also interesting to wonder what a partner and children might think: His reluctance to acculturate, might be offset by what he sees his family doing. I know of like outcomes although a friend did a PhD on this stuff in cultural linguistics and oftentimes, the men in the family change faster than the women, it depends (this was research in the persian/iranian community. it may differ in the Hazara community. Being Shia reduces options for where to go in the islamic community, Shia being a significant minority religion in most economies. Being relocated from Afghanistan to Syria or Iraq or Lebanon would be pretty bizarre. Being relocated to Iran would probably have worked out ok)
I'm trying to avoid saying what i think about his choices given it's obvious I don't want a world with headscarf laws.
This isn't about if I approve or disapprove of sharia law and imposed norms on women, its about what he wants, wanted. Doing a good thing (helping him not die) has wound up making a range of (lesser?) bad things happen.
The Iran thing is so complicated. Probably, he's so tainted by his role with the US it's impossible. (I am making huge inferential leaps that he's Hazara/shia not sunni btw, there's no strong reason for only shia to have opposed the Taliban. If he's sunni, Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan would be fine you would think)
You probably feel pretty conflicted about this. What would I know, I've never had to make this kind of least-worst choice for somebody else, at somebody else's behest. I don't envy anyone exposed to this stuff. Nobody feels completely good, when you do a good thing, but the outcome isn't entirely welcome. I know I've done some stupid things from good intent and the outcome is universally bad, and this isn't one of those times I think so, there's that. I think you did a good thing.
It sounded like a next to impossible balancing act. Somehow, a lot of them wound up in construction: specifically tiling. I wondered if the "silk road" building culture of decorated tiling had paid off, as a work model for them or if this is just that one lucky Afghan who gets a job and then hires his friends, to make a "thing" happen.
I was also told the whole Fasi/Dari thing was really funny from the Farsi side of things. The Dari speakers sound like they're enunciating olde-english, chaucer style, to modern english ears (if you see what I mean) -and the Afgans said that the Farsi interpreters were often mis-interpreting things which made for horrendous Immigration problems.
I definitely see what you mean, and he said similar things when we talked about language diversity in Afghanistan. Him being a native Dari speaker caused multiple misunderstandings amongst the local Pashto speakers, through accent but also Pashto is just a totally different almost guttural language compared to Dari. That discussion was the first time I think I felt resentment for how American education does not demand fluency in multiple languages at a young age.
All sub saharien africans cleaning dishes in our European restaurants live that shock.
My grand pa after his first day as a miner in Belgium, wanted to run back under the sun of his Croatian village. But stayed for his friends he met in the hole.
You land in a totally different environment, and have to adapt, and most do as they can.
I migrated from South America to Europe a couple of years ago and I didn't suffer any shock --- of course there are some differences, but I believe since both are western cultures the things in common dampen most of the shock.
"we let our girls go to school"
grievance would be too much for most Muslim countries too. There is no religious ban on education of girls in Islam. He can move mentally into the 21st century or, well, sod off back, Taliban warts and all.
This is a serious cultural gap. We would not be able to integrate our own ancestors coming directly from year, say, 600. We won't be able to integrate contemporary people coming with mindset fit for early Middle Ages, unless they are willing to shed it.
Which is unlikely in adults. I wouldn't be able to remake myself to become a good Taliban fighter either, and I wouldn't be willing to. If your former terp sees us as degenerate and godless, he will cling to his old ways bitterly.
I saw where my parents come from vs the US, and with the fresh perspective of a child absolutely realized how lucky I am.
Now I'm a high achieving worker, donates heavily to charity (EA ftw), and mentors similar people.
I really hope people have patience for refugees like your interpreter because while it's understandable very frustrating watching their life happen, please think of their children who will undoubtably appreciate the US a ton more.
>please think of their children who will undoubtably appreciate the US a ton more.
Why do you think this is assured? If he were to marry and have children here in the US it would be with someone who holds views culturally proximate to his. I think this event is unlikely, but it's not impossible. Is your claim that US cultural propaganda is so powerful that children will ignore their upbringing? It seems like you're saying the children will appreciate the US relative to the experience of their parents in their home country. But if they have no experience of that home country then what are they comparing it to?
https://www.airbnb.com/s/Kabul--Afghanistan/homes?tab_id=hom...
Google reviews also interesting, nice restaurant in Kandahar..
https://www.google.com/maps/place/AFGHAN+SHINWARI+RESTAURANT...
edit: Also, the photos are full of things that immediately imperil the hosts -- innocuous details ranging from music disks to wine glasses to risque art prints.
Why are these pages still public?
If anyone from Airbnb is reading it would be wise to lockdown these pages. Though it's probably too late, the Taliban is quite media savvy.
Edit: someone commented, and deleted, a question about how to escalate this to Airbnb. I don't work for them, so I have no idea. But if Airbnb is going to do something like offer a place to sleep to Afghan refugees, sorry they've just stepped into a geopolitical game they might not be ready to play.
Airbnb: delete these pages. While it's likely Taliban have already taken down this data, it's also possible they're too busy dealing with everything going on at HKIA that they haven't had time or they forgot or the guy who did it is busy doing something else. You are putting folks at risk.
None of the available places are by superhosts, so it’s best not to risk it.
You don’t want to end up staying in some dump.
In that case it was definitely the hosts making donations, not Airbnb.
Edited: clarity
https://twitter.com/Abihabib/status/1430231520820797442 https://twitter.com/ericuman/status/1430284770680913921
It is great initiative but Airbnb does not own locations .
The AirBnB spokesperson says
> ... we will be paying for these stays ...
So I think it’s pretty clear
AirBnB will pay hosts for accomodation for 20k refugees.
Anyways great initiative.
I doubt he has lined up 20.000 properties yet who want to do this. So that will be fun distribution:
1 to Alaska. 3 in Portland, 1 in Colorado Springs.
On a more serious note. this is not a promising idea,
Nobody has any real idea who these people are. What sorts of trauma they may have experienced? What their medical, psychological, or sociological needs are.
There is also the tragic issue that inevitably there will be a few among them who mean to do harm to a country that occupied them for 20 years.
Random AirBnB hosts who probably mean very well have no training or practice to do something like this. And once it gets real they will not want to either.
It is not a hippie utopian meeting of the minds and "all is chill" It is real people, Real trauma, Real culture shock, and quite different means of resolving conflict.
I hope Biden will not just dump the refugees into US cities. However, the camps that Obama, Trump, Biden are using now for refugees on the southern border does not fill me with a lot of confidence that the refugees from Afghanistan will get the help, care they will all need and the reeducation some will need.
The state should be forced to build and staff suitable accommodations that are warm, friendly and safe.
That are set up to help them through a process of adjusting to life outside of Afghanistan and towards a life in the US.
They also need to be screened to help identify those who may have ill intent.
Ah yes, because US immigration detention centers are well-known for being more pleasant than the private homes of the middle classes.
You sound like a truly nasty "patriot" attempting to pull a thin veil over it.
"Thank you, science -- Facebook" has a completely different ring to it.
“Find all Pashto speaking Muslim families from the Kandahar area, currently living in the US, who have two extra bedrooms, and have lived in the US at least seven years. Rank families by likelihood they would sponsor refugees.”
FB should be on this right now.
AirBnB is honestly trying too hard with this PR move, it boggles my mind that shareholders don't reign in corporate stunts like this.
If, on the other hand, Airbnb benefits from HURTING 20,000 people, then we would have a conversation.
Isn't that an ongoing humanitarian crisis caused by Airbnb?
Is the accommodation temporary? Is it the offer? Are refugees temporarily here? Where is 'here' from the previous sentence?
And let 'em keep their culture and religion locally instead of repossessing them?
That's probably an viable option last century (see: Philippines, Guam, Puerto Rico), but colonialism/imperialism is out of style right now so it would definitely not be easy to do that.
In practice, US foreign policy doesn't recognize international law and never really has.
The US could annex Afghanistan, and apart from the CCP doing a lot of complaining about it (primarily because they want access to Afghanistan's mineral wealth), nothing would happen.