My Standing Desk Experiment
zenhabits.net
zenhabits.net
http://leopolovets.com/img/treadmill_desk.jpg
Basically it's four five-dollar plastic bins on each side of a treadmill, and then a ~2'x4' plank on top. It looks awful but works very well.
What brand treadmill is that? Is any particular brand best for a treadmill desk?
Based on my experience, I'm guessing any kind of treadmill would work as long as it has a regular sized belt. You want to have enough space behind the "desk", otherwise your feel will be falling off the back of the treadmill when you walk.
It's important to ergonomically adjust your desk so that it's in the correct position, of course. Stand normally with your arms limp at your sides. Now, without moving your elbows, bring your hands up such that your forearms are horizontal, hands straight in front of you. Your hands now indicate where your keyboard should be -- roughly an inch or two below your elbow. Your mouse should also be reachable from that position without moving your elbow.
I'm always surprised to see guys set up improvised standing desks on filing cabinets and stuff like that. From several years of experience: You need to be able to sit OR stand at your desk. In a very short time, you will automatically alternate between these positions whenever you feel tired in the back (from sitting) or feet (from standing).
I would never work somewhere that didn't provide a motorized desk. I have gotten so used to it that I even have one in my home office (http://imgur.com/A1eS2), set me back about a thousand bucks, an amount most of us would spend on gadgets without blinking.
I had a habit of going for a mid-day mile or two walk to help balance things out, but the weather has been so toasty lately that I just can not bring myself to do that anymore.
I am definitely feeling the effects of the sedentary lifestyle.
My standing desk is just a normal desk put on top of cinder blocks so my drawers and surface are all setup for standing.
Both of those cut down on the time I could handle standing.
After a few months I tried sitting again a couple of times but that was totally destructive for my neck and shoulders now that they've actually relaxed while I've been using the standing desk. Few hours later I had to revert back to standing which exhibits virtually no pain points. The only painful thing were my feet in the beginning but now I simply stand on a carpet, and further I've also folded the carpet these days. That helps me vary the position of my feet: I can use the folded carpet to tilt my feet forward, backward, or level and the same for both feet. I unconsciously keep changing my posture a few times a minute so I won't stick into bad positions.
Built the desk from an ordinary kitchen table by replacing the legs with longer ones, costing roughly 30€ or so at the hardware store. Here's a picture: http://yason.kapsi.fi/tmp/codingdesk.jpg
"Individuals spending most of the day on their feet every working day are at greater risk of health problems including varicose veins, poor circulation and swelling in the feet and legs, foot problems, joint damage, heart and circulatory problems and pregnancy difficulties."
"Chronic heart and circulatory disorders are linked to prolonged standing at work. Prolonged time in an upright posture at work may cause hypertension comparable to 20 years of aging."
Some of them aren't even links.
Others are broken links. (#17)
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2819560
will shed some light on his response.
Here's my dream setup:
[] http://store.steelcase.com/products/airtouch-height-adjustab...
[] http://www.amazon.com/Embody-Chair-Herman-Miller-Adjustable/...
[x] http://www.amazon.com/Sublime-Imprint-Anti-Fatigue-Cobblesto...
here are some other desk setups I've been working with http://bit.ly/noPYyY - original makeshift desk at work http://bit.ly/o6vDEi - current home office setup
Some keys to success, make sure your monitor is eye level and you're typing at a 90 degree angle, and get a gel pad to stand on, makes a huge difference.
The S3 images return "Request has expired", and Twitpic is blank (and doesn't seem to be referer-checking)
homedesk setup: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/standingdesk1.jpg/
makeshift desk: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/standingdesk2.jpg/
1) no butt pimples
2) ghetto foot and back relief: a brick. A trick learned from a friend who is a brick sculptor, who learned it from a guy at a brickyard, after complaining about standing at the brick easel all day. Just put a brick under one foot. Alternate as needed.
It's great until about hour five or so, at which point my legs and knees start crying uncle. I've found that I can last longer if I sprinkle in some sitting throughout the day, during lunches or meetings, and I can go even further if I stand on a foam activity mat.
I think that taking frequent breaks to walk is the best way to get a little relief for the legs and back, and some exercise, at the same time.
I started this set up as an experiment to see if standing will work for me. And thus far I love it very much. If I were to write an article myself, it would be quite similar to Leo's. I don't track my weight as I'm not overweight but I agree about the focus effect and the general "more energy to work" benefit. Standing has eliminated the post-lunch heaviness that I used to experience, especially when I was working in a corporate environment, before going indie, working at home.
So far I had no negative impacts, except temporal lower back pain while I adjusted in the first couple of weeks and occasional sore feet. On the other hand, I believe I had several benefits, related to the occasional back and neck pain which is often the result of sitting. Plus the increased energy, like I wrote previously.
My verdict, I recommend everyone at least to try it as an experiment for a month or so and see if it works for you.
Come to think of it, I'm sure I've seen these before. Ex. http://www.amazon.com/Connect-A-Desk-Mobile-Laptop-Harness-D...
Doesn't seem like quite what I'm looking for, though. I built a quick mockup using cardboard and string, and although obviously the pro version has much more comfortable straps, I feel like it still places the laptop too low, while the strap around your shoulders encourages you to look down. Not good for posture— and moving the laptop up makes it uncomfortably close to the face.
What I really want is a harness that suspends the laptop at about the place I hold it up to use it, which is significantly higher and further from me than my waist— and ideally it should be supported from my waist rather than my shoulders.
I think this is actually a feasible thing to make— I'm going to play around with cardboard some more.
Edit: Okay, my second prototype consists of a board, about 8"x12", which sticks up from my waist the long way at about a 30˚ angle. A strap connects the far end of the board around my lower back, which holds the board up; the laptop sits away from me on the board, with the front end resting on the straps.
Pic for reference: http://imgur.com/OOf42
I'm typing this using it right now. The laptop ergonomics themselves are pretty nice, exactly the holding-the-laptop-but-type-with-both-hands feeling I was going for. The prototype apparatus is obviously way uncomfortable, though. A padded waist piece and strap would probably make it perfect, but I would still want to investigate the effect of the shear forces on my spine before using this full-time. (Proposal: Trade in the strap for a rigid structure, counterweight the back. Better proposal: Counterweight the back with extra battery for the laptop.)
Honestly, aside from more comfortable and adjustable pieces, this is pretty much what I want. So, uh... does anyone make something like that? :) (Another crucial feature would be a non-load-bearing safety strap that does go around my neck— I tested the harness pretty carefully before trusting the laptop to it, and it was sturdy as a rock, but it still feels flimsy.)
On the good side, my back and legs feel much better than when I sat all day. I have lost some weight, though not enough to use that as a reason for standing. I am more likely to use my whiteboard for jotting down and sketching ideas. I find that I can think about plans and ideas more easily.
On the bad side, my feet hurt. Not when I'm standing, but when I wake up or get up from resting. This pain started about 3 - 4 months into the experiment. I wear thin-soled shoes which probably exacerbates the problem. Reading is more difficult, unless I have hardcopy.
Surprisingly, it didn't seem to affect my coding, neither positively nor negatively. I thought it would help by increasing focus. It also seems to make visitors a bit uncomfortable, unless I sit down to talk to them.
Going forward, I will try losing a bit more weight and using an anti-fatigue mat to stand on. Also, I will switch more often between standing and sitting, depending on the task at hand.
I wonder how loud that treadmill is though? I see no problems with people standing instead of sitting (might something you need to get accustomed to if it's rare/if you're the first, but it shouldn't be disturbing), but I'm not sure if I'd be happy with a constant 'whirr' coming from beneath a coworker's table..
Several other folks have them as well, and I occasionally move to a location where I can stand while I work.
...what?
"The participants were asked the question about their leisure sitting time, not their time sitting at work ... My friends who wrote this study also pointed out that the more you sit and watch TV the chances are you will eat more and gain weight."
That doesn't prove anything, but shows that potentially they are focusing on sitting along with other activities like eating fatty "leaisure" foods rather than sipping on a coffee coding all day.
If you sit down most of your life you likely will end up with back problems around 40.
Just standing up 50% of the time would hugely benefit and as he said standing up all the time would be the best.
I am contemplating whether to do the standing up all the time. So far I am doing 50/50.
Was thinking for those who like to switch 50/50 or some variation of that,whether it would make sense to create a little reminder app.
Would people be interested in that?
http://www.dejal.com/timeout/ (osx)
http://www.workrave.org/ (win, linux)
As for initial discomfort it was fairly minimal. In fact I soon began to appreciate the soreness as it allowed me to fall asleep faster as well as improving the quality of my sleep.
The Desk I'm using is a slightly older Ikea office desk that allows me to set it to any particular height. Sadly, it looks like they don't carry it anymore and the closest option that I see currently is the Frederick. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60111123
For the first few days, my lower back hurt like hell, but the pain went away after a week or so. When I used to sit at my desk all day, I wouldn't eat very much. But since I started this, my appetite has doubled and I feel a lot healthier.
I'm only 22, but I'm a bit overweight (NZ overweight, not US overweight), and I think that small changes like this can really affect your health in the future. I feel like I'm tackling back problems before they have a chance to start. So if you're thinking about it, I'd recommend it.
[1] not continuously, lol
The desk surface can be mounted at various heights.
It's $315 and is much classier than the cheap drafting desks. I also use it outside on the deck in the summer.
http://www.frenchbistrofurniture.com/product/F-0250/Fermob-F...
Also, a four-drawer dresser is about the same height as the table above. They are very easy to find at flea markets or estate sales for next to nothing, and are perfect for standing with a laptop.
http://www.amazon.com/Alvin-Folding-Drafting-Woodgrain-Round...
Regarding the bistro table, I would say it's about 20% more stable than you would expect. Pretty good for a laptop. I wouldn't put a 27" iMac on it, though.
It takes a while to build up the stamina to stand. When you first switch you need frequent breaks during the day. Having a high chair is crucial during this time. As your stamina improves, you begin to be able to handle standing an entire day, but you're still sore after a few days or a week. You're a bit more tired on the weekend. After a few months, you can stand all day long for days on end with no fatigue. That's the point where you get the benefit.
After switching to a standing desk months ago, I found that I had vastly more energy during my vacation to Europe. I would walk and explore a city and be active all day long with virtually no fatigue at all. My stamina beat out my companions' significantly, even people who are otherwise much more active than I am. Standing for 8 - 10 hours per day provides a huge stamina boost when you adjust to it.
It's important to ergonomically adjust your desk so that it's in the correct position, of course. Stand normally with your arms limp at your sides. Now, without moving your elbows, bring your hands up such that your forearms are horizontal, hands straight in front of you. Your hands now indicate where your keyboard should be -- roughly an inch or two below your elbow height. Your mouse should also be reachable from that position without moving your elbow.
Standing burns twice as many calories as sitting, and is overall much healthier as a daily habit. There was a study I circulated around my work (I'll see if I can find a link; it may be the same one as at author included) which compared two groups of people who were active, healthy, and fit, and did the same sort of work. One group of people sat at their job, and the other group of people stood. The study showed that people who stood had a lower incidence of heart disease, diabetes, and other ailments. Conclusion: standing is healthier, and regular exercise outside work doesn't make up for it.
Lastly, I've found standing more ergonomic. With a chair, you're likely to find yourself slumping somehow, on the armrest, or on the desk. With a standing desk, it's easy to follow correct posture. With a Kinesis keyboard and 3M Ergonomic Mouse (the one which looks like a joystick) I haven't experienced any ergonomics issues in a long time.
Regarding the article:
> There’s no question, standing takes more energy and tends to make you sore compared to sitting.
No, it does not. That's just the author building up sufficient stamina to stand. You will build the stamina, and will not be sore whatsoever, even after a week of standing all day long.
> For the past three weeks I’ve been standing while I work, instead of my usual sitting.
Not nearly long enough to adjust! I'd say it took me 3 months to become completely comfortable.
It was just the right height, snapped together in 2 minutes, and the top shelf is just wide enough for my laptop and a glass of water. It stands right next to my normal desk so I can choose which I want to use.
Over a year ago I finally got an adjustable desk - GeekDesk http://www.geekdesk.com/ - recommend it!
hope I don't find myself buying a new mac due to the whole thing collapsing! Still, at least I'll have my health :)
My leg strength stays much higher than it used to, as you might imagine. One bike ride per week sustains the muscle that used to require three rides, if you see what I mean.
I'm generally more alert while standing up. When I sit, I have to tap a foot or something, otherwise I'll start getting sleepy. This has always been the case, it's just a bit more noticeable when I spend more of the day standing.
The standing desk has helped tremendously with my posture, but has, to some degree, exacerbated my shoulder/neck issues. Specifically, holding good posture in a standing position lends itself to a knot in a trapezius muscle, which causes pain and nerve irritation.
I'm currently thinking that switching between standing and sitting will yield the best results. To that end, I'm considering building a sliding desk platform out of 8020 parts (http://www.8020.net/).
What about period when people sat 40 hours a week at the desk? It didn't happen either.
To answer your question I think that sitting 8 hours every day is not very healthy, but it's far better than standing 8 hours. Break long period of sitting with some walking, stretching or some light exercise, and you would eliminate almost all negative effects of prolonged sitting.
One part of the 'more healthy' claim I've read about is that you're bound to move a lot more if you're standing. You'll shift weight more. You might wander off for a second, thinking. It comes more natural instead of lifting your rear out of a comfy chair.
Of course it can't be healthy to sit 8 hours straight without some pause for walking or stretching. Combine that with some exercises 2-3 times a week and you would eliminate almost all of the health problems related with sitting.
Why is that obviously bad? I stand for 9-10 hours straight. It took probably two weeks to get up to that point, but I rarely even sit down when taking a lunch break. I don't use a gel pad and I stand barefoot at home, or in some form of barefoot (vivo's to look nice) when I worked in a office. I almost constantly shift my weight. And every 10-20 minutes I do calf raises, stand on one foot, do free squats, something to move some blood. I'm still standing in all of those exercises though and most are just second nature. I stand still while typing, but move quite a bit when I'm reading.