Hacker News Reader

Comment by NiceWayToDoIT | Hacker News Reader

Somehow I have a feeling that each passing day, things are getting tighter and tighter and private corporation and government institutions are getting more controlling and totalitarian. That feeling like slowly being boiled into 1984.

View on HN

Various parts of the U.S. are already there. You know where those are if you live in them. Ask yourself: How many times have stopped yourself from asserting 2 + 2 indeed is four[1] in conversations with colleagues, neighbors, teachers, or even family because you may lose your income or worse if you did not at least remain silent in the face of assertions to the contrary?

For those not familiar, here is the beginning of the relevant passage[1]:

> 'It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party. That is the fact that you have got to relearn, Winston. It needs an act of self-destruction, an effort of the will. You must humble yourself before you can become sane.'

> He paused for a few moments, as though to allow what he had been saying to sink in.

> 'Do you remember,' he went on, 'writing in your diary, "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four"?'

> 'Yes,' said Winston.

> O'Brien held up his left hand, its back towards Winston, with the thumb hidden and the four fingers extended.

> 'How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?'

> 'Four.'

> 'And if the party says that it is not four but five—then how many?'

> ...

[1]: https://2x2.rocks/

You don't indicate a political slant, but this is an alt-right take on American politics if I've ever seen one. I would counter with:

For a couple hundred years, Americans insisted 2+2=5. It was even enshrined in law for the first hundred or so years. We eventually agreed on a compromise, 2+2=4.5, but some of our lives depend on the answer to this math problem, so we're not going to stop fighting for 2+2=4. Sure enough, if you work as an engineer, you're going to be fired if your answer isn't within tolerance.

> an alt-right take

No. Please do not try to label me.

Ok, I’ll indulge you. What is the 2+2=4 for you that you are prevented from saying?

Not nanis but i have been in places where i couldnt say my opposing as persons talked about gun control. Biggest example in past year is corona though, anybody who disagree with lockdown etc. is anti-mask trump loving redneck in some place, one of which I worked.

Lol - it turns out it's some antivax conspiracy nonsense that was flagged to death yesterday:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28275671

Orwell indeed.

I am not referring to that argument. There was no "antivax conspiracy nonsense" ... Just people who can't read.

I have made no statements regarding vaccination.

However, I do consider delaying until after the approval announcement the release of the update to what is known about how many people who are fully vaccinated against Covid19 are dying from Covid19 or being hospitalized due to Covid19 to be suspicious.

That is not a conspiracy theory. It happened. Information that was due to be released on Friday was delayed and released after the FDA approval on Monday. The updated information showed that known rates of death from Covid19 among those fully vaccinated against Covid19 continued to increase.

Plus, the CDC does not put out a proper time series table[1]. Every week, they overwrite the information from the previous week so one is forced to rely on external snapshots[2] to preserve what should be public record. Plus, many states don't even release or track information about the vaccination status of people who are hospitalized or who die from Covid19. For months now, CDC have been saying:

> Ultimately, CDC will use the National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance System (NNDSS) to identify vaccine breakthrough cases.

What is the holdup?

I summarized why you want to care about that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28287440

None of this is a conspiracy theory: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28280087

[1]: https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/bre...

[2]: https://archive.ph/https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/hea...

> Orwell indeed.

Wrong, that was Kafkaesque.

Question vaccine safety or efficacy in a public forum and you'll see soon what censorship means.

Or say that vaccines confer major protection and the vaccinated should go about their normal lives.

Right? Even suggesting that there might possibly be perverse incentives to prolong a state of emergency will raise ire and draw ban hammers.

You're absolutely right, even though I suspect I would strongly disagree with some of the things you would assert as self-evident facts. I might feel that the current majority consensus opinion on many things is good and right, but I can still be disturbed when I see the walls closing in on people who dare to think otherwise. The Overton Window is shutting fast and we may all find our fingers crushed sooner or later.

It is not our fingers that will be crushed but our necks.

The third world is becoming 1984, the first world is debating itself to either become the third world or A Brave New World.

Basic human nature, push it as far as the other side will take it. If the other side is significantly weaker they'll compromise a lot before they snap and push back, or try to.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism

I believe the low quality low hanging fruits of my life are being slowly squeezed out by stupid corporate and government policies.

But it’s a glass half full for those aware and able to see it for what it is.

The end game is me sitting under a tree somewhere with a picnic in the middle of nowhere with someone I have a genuine connection with and no technology at hand.

Hah. Good luck finding a "genuine connection" without technology, in a world where technology mediates every interaction.

Something something Chinese social credit evil, something something fighting for "freedom" and "democracy".

Apple is already half way there to be honest.

How do people not realize this, even when it's been made so painfully obvious with their photo scanning debacle? There is *zero* privacy on closed source, proprietary, for-profit, shareholder-owned platforms. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. They own the platform and they own your behavior when you use their products.

Won't be hard to pivot the NYC vaccine pass into the NYC health pass.

>private corporation and government institutions are getting more controlling and totalitarian

At least I have a voice in government. I don't get a voice when Experian (or Google, or any private company) decides to blacklist me arbitrarily.

How long before your creditworthiness determines your eligibility to vote? Don't laugh, or Texas will find a way to use it! (as a Texan ashamed of current moves against voting)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com