OnlyFans shows Visa and MasterCard are 'choke-points' of online speech | Hacker News Reader

OnlyFans shows Visa and MasterCard are 'choke-points' of online speech

protocol.com

55 pointstrungdq8820 comments

OnlyFans shows that Visa and MasterCard are chokepoints of (particularly, but not exclusively, online) B2C commerce.

While that overlaps with speech, it is not the same thing.

While your statement is not incorrect, it isn't profound either. When something restricts free speech, it almost never (probably never with no exceptions) restricts every type of speech simultaneously and this bar is never used to judge restrictions on speech.

The problem is when a meaningful form of speech is restricted , not when every form is completeñy restrcited simultaneously

This is an interesting update! Are Visa and MasterCard the reason behind the ban on sex content creators?

There was similar pressure applied by payment processors to purveyors of firearms several years ago. This seems to be pretty standard tactics really.

My understanding is that MasterCard is introducing/continuing very strict guidelines for reporting around adult content, like documenting that people have given consent and are old enough. And then, all videos have to be verified before publish, and live videos have to be verified live. In other words, a huge cost to publishing user-generated content. This isn’t a problem for adult content studios dealing with a known set of performers and publishing their own videos. That’s why the policy is so especially impactful towards OnlyFans, where all content is paid, and it’s all created by people the company can’t trust by default.

The stated goal is to reduce criminal behavior, but obviously, the main goal is for MasterCard to protect its brand image. Folks are unsure how much actual impact this kind of policy will have against the very real and terrible problem of sex exploitation and trafficking. Which leads people to wonder if the policy is more about being prude and less about preventing exploitation. I could see clear arguments both ways.

> The stated goal is to reduce criminal behavior, but obviously, the main goal is for MasterCard to protect its brand image.

For me they just destroyed their brand image. They have just shown, just like PayPal some years ago that they can terminate service based on phylosophical issues. I have nothing against them collaborating with law enforcement when there is a warrant, but cutting payments to arbitrary entities just because they believe that those entities are responsible for CP is overreaching. Do they cut payments also to Hollwood studios because they promote violence ? Or to Blackwater because of what they do in conflict zones ?

Yes but you’re still going to use visa and MasterCard with whatever your banks debit card is based off of. They’ve been cutting off payments to sites that publish adult content for ages, this isn’t new.

> The stated goal is to reduce criminal behavior, but obviously, the main goal is for MasterCard to protect its brand image

No, the main goal is protect their bottom line against legal liability. Visa and MC have been proactive in anti-trafficking measures because they have been sued for facilitating online trafficking, because they are very deep pockets defendants that tend to have a nexus to sites involved in commercially distributing trafficking-derived content. So, if there's any whiff of information that they have regarding even the potential of trafficking, they are going to take action to minimize the potential for legal action accusing them of knowingly facilitating trafficking, which has already occurred in previous cases.

> Folks are unsure how much actual impact this kind of policy will have against the very real and terrible problem of sex exploitation and trafficking. Which leads people to wonder if the policy is more about being prude and less about preventing exploitation.

The goal is not primarily to reduce trafficking but to reduce the card companies’ legal exposure relating to trafficking. Its not about being prudish; Visa/MC don’t care about that as long as they are making money without unnecessary risk exposure.

Just as the SWIFT system are 'choke-points' of sovereignty.

What profit incentive exists for payment processors to not accept these sites? Why can't they offer a high risk product where the merchant takes the full risk of charge backs?

It's not just one payment processor doing this, all the major ones are doing it so it can't be some rouge executive forcing his religious morals upon others.

Whether it’s done on purpose, or not, this move will drive adoption of alternative digital payments.

Exactly. 20% of your customers are associated with 80% of your problems. Right now there’s an equilibrium where payment processors take on some medium risk merchants at much higher fees to cover the disproportionate costs of chargebacks and regulatory risk.

Can anyone suggested a good eth/BTC processing stack that they've used? I'm planning on making a way out for NSFW creators.

You're too late and would be better served by aiding the existing companies already doing this such as SpankChain and Treat. These are just two but there are many, many like them.

go crypto!

That wouldn’t fix the Visa/Mastercard chokepoint, as you need fiat money to buy cryptocurrencies.

But cutting off Bitcoin or other major coin purchasing would have a big impact beyond OnlyFans. Not that you’re wrong, it’s just that the credit card processors would sort of be declaring war on crypto.

Maybe it could move the center of gravity from Visa/Mc. But it is only an hypothesis.

The idea is that with widespread adoption of crypto, there is less need of a fiat onramp since people can get paid + buy things in crypto and not need to swap to fiat.

But you can always just to bank transfer to buy crypto instead of having to go through these payment networks

Reply on news.ycombinator.com