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The problem is that there's two types of people who ride bikes.

Commuters who want to spend less than $200 on just something to get them moving, parents riding with their kids are also here.

Cyclists who spent 10-20-40 hours per week on a bike. For a hobby that you spend 60hr/mo on it's reasonable to spend $1300 on an entry level road bike and much more as you progress. Especially because it's good for your health.

Obviously there's money to be made with cyclists, but commuters would be so cheap and budget concerned that there's no money to be made from it.

Amazon is perfect because you're not looking for quality. I use a rockbros sweat catcher for my indoor training bike setup and it's great because it's just fabric.

You want LBS to stock $20 pedals? Who is going to buy them? What would the margins on that be? I wouldn't trust $20 clipless pedals (because if they fail you will get hurt/injured) and if they're flat pedals then bmx people would buy flat, but they're going to be so heavy that it'll be bad performance wise. There's only broke students who would buy it, and at that point just get it from Amazon.

I am looking at a bike for commuting and as this will be multimodal - that means a Brompton which is well over £1200.

Oh and trying to find one in stock is a nightmare in the UK most be even worse else where.

If you're looking for cheaper, look into Dahon bikes, they're decent value and much cheaper. Especially if you can get a used one that has been kept well, you can often get it for less than half of the MSRP.

Heavier unfortuetly and bigger

Expensive but worth it. Brompton designs are far better than the alternatives. They hold their value pretty well too, if it turns out you don't like it.

So ...

I spend a lot of time on a bike. I don't spend $1300 on bikes.

There are people who want the latest carbon fiber blah blah just because they are using it for sport. I have no problem with them. But I have my current $200 Craigslist bike, it would have been $900 MSRP, but it rides fine, it's a little heavier than those carbon fiber things but so what? I get more exercise, and worry slightly less about theft, which buys me a LOT of freedom because I can just lock it up in downtown San Francisco and enjoy my day. If it gets stolen I just buy another bike, no biggie. If my landlord confiscates it, I just buy another bike, no biggie.*

Yeah, I agree, it's reasonable to spend $1300. If you have $1300. But it's also okay to NOT want to spend $1300 and still want to take it up as a serious hobby. I for one am pretty happy with my $200 bike.

I don't use clip pedals, I just use flat pedals, and these $20 aluminum flat pedals are nice and solid. I tried SPD clips before and hated that stuff. To each is own.

I have done many long distance trips, and I avoid proprietary or hard-to-find components because it's awesome that I can find replacement components in some random village in rural China or rural Myanmar or rural anywhere I go.

*Saves me on rent anyway because apartments in my area with proper bike storage OR enough apartment sqftage to store bikes inside have rent rates higher than my current rent plus the cost of a new bike per month. It still saves me money to stay at my current cheap apartment, lock bike to the pool fence (because property manager refuses to install bike racks on the premises), get it confiscated every now and then, and keep buying new bikes.

For someone so value sensitive, what is keeping you in SFO inspite of the insanely high rents? That's money down the drain unless you can justify it.

Interesting people

Interesting events

Working on actually interesting things

Availability of tech jobs

Good scenery

Lots of places to exercise

Somewhat decent medical specialists which don't exist outside of a couple of major metro areas in the US

Startup investment which is hard to get if you don't live here, but if you do take it they also expect you to pay yourself barely enough to live

Good Asian supermarkets and overall decent food

There is some basic disfunctional public transit here which doesn't exist in most of the US; US cities with good transit are equally expensive

So it's not a $200 bike! It's a used $900 bike. The $200 bikes people are talking about are the $200 MSRP bikes.

Right, but still, I would not have gotten a better bike for $200 from LBS so I don't go to LBS.

$1300 will not get you a carbon bike. It will get you a new Trek Domane AL3 which is aluminum. Carbon is usually an option on prebuilt bikes starting in the $2000-$3000 range.

You don't need carbon to workout or bikepack, but your comfort level increases.

I love SPD, but that's because I have had my feet slip on flat pedals and seen how close I was to getting injured because of it

If you're going bikepacking in a place where there's not going to be any high end mechanics then I agree that using the most common components makes sense because then anybody can help you. Although I've heard that to go bikepacking in China you need a local handler in a car following you, so I would probably just have them carry spare components there.

And yeah, I don't lock my bike outside, only in groups where we can maintain eye contact with the bikes while sitting down. If I commuted by bike I would use something much much cheaper.

I got a Trek 2300 carbon fiber for $150 once, used. :S

I mean, I don't go to LBS, that's how I get carbon fiber at insanely cheap prices. People who are brainwashed into supporting LBS will get their carbon bikes for $3000.

Used that bike for a while, even checked it in on a plane to Taiwan, no insurance or anything, rode around for a couple weeks, didn't worry too much about handling by the airline since for $150 I could replace it if it got damaged. Worry-free is freedom at its best.

The bike got confiscated in California later on, then I bought a $200 used bike to replace it.

I'm happy to pay for the skilled labour of bike servicing and parts fitting. I wish bike stores would acknowledge that that's what I'm paying them for and fit parts that I've bought myself (probably off Amazon), charging a fair price that lets them make a reasonable overall margin. Don't try to keep a parts selection instore, use the space for the mechanics and just those parts that people might need urgently (i.e. some pedals that are good enough to ride home on if you broke off your current pedals - if I'm upgrading to fancy pedals I'm going to want to choose them specifically).

>Cyclists who spent 10-20-40 hours per week on a bike. For a hobby that you spend 60hr/mo on it's reasonable to spend $1300 on an entry level road bike and much more as you progress. Especially because it's good for your health.

how is using lighter expensive bike using fancy 0.5% less friction gearboxes better for your health? If you wanted health benefits you would be using the heaviest shittiest bike possible for more resistance.

Shittiest and heaviest bikes are really unpleasant to ride. And if you don't enjoy the ride, you don't ride.

Additional point: shitty bikes usually have really terrible geometries and will fuck up your health if you decide to use them for sport. If your shitty bike calls itself an 'MTB' and you take it onto a trail, it is very likely for it to actually break if you catch even a tiny jump (let's say 20-30 cm root) because the welds are terrible, and the metal is brittle.

If you go on big rides in the middle of nowhere then you can't really afford to have components fail on you. I always take a few tools, small parts etc. but if something like a pedal or stem fails I'm walking a long way home. Quality components are made of different materials (e.g. higher grades of Alu) and manufactured using better processes (e.g. cold forging, not stamped) so they are stronger and lighter. I also don't pick the very lightest components since I need durability.

Aside from that, the joy of riding is what gets me out. Many cyclists choose tough hill climbs for added fitness gains and challenge. There is a good kind of difficulty (steep grade somewhere picturesque) and a bad kind (unresponsive bike that doesn't roll well)

> middle of nowhere

I don't usually go to the middle of nowhere, most often I'm going through a bunch of towns. In the worst case I can shove the bus on a bike to get to the next town.

Time and time again I have found that failure happens even with the best of components, and having standard components means you can find replacements more easily. Having a steel bike means the village welding expert in a random town in rural China can fix the frame, or fix your broken rack. Having standard spokes, tire, etc. means the LBS in Burmese village (who unlike American LBS, are actually reasonably priced) will have parts that work with your bike. Having standard brake pads and cables means you can get them anywhere when they wear down.

Greg Lemond said that "it never get easier, you just go faster." A nicer bike isn't going to mean that you work any less hard, it just means you go faster. And fast is fun.

I said it's good for your health, not that we're optimizing solely for health. You're right that the most frictiony setup could be beneficial.

But also, a higher performance bike will help you go further & faster. It doesn't mean you will end up exerting less effort, it just means that you will go faster and you'll keep putting in the same effort. With this time saving you can try new routes, feel more comfortable going further or bike packing with higher quality gear. It wouldn't change how long I ride for, but it increases the options for where to go.

Yes there are diminishing gains as with anything, but an entry level bike is still going to be below the Shimano 105 point of performance vs cost.

> Amazon is perfect because you're not looking for quality. I use a rockbros sweat catcher for my indoor training bike setup and it's great because it's just fabric.

Guess they're just a chinese integrator/reseller and quality may vary a lot among different products but I have to say I'm really happy with my backpacking bags (waterproof top-tube and frame bags) I got from them on amazon. I wouldn't trust them with anything "mechanical" though.

Pedals, especially flats (which btw are used by plenty of MTBers), are a breed of their own... they usually come from the same few factories and final price depends on who puts their logo on them. For a good while you could find the very same pedals from HT and from plenty of other minor brands for prices varying from 30 to ~150 euros.

I dunno, a lot of the time I get higher quality products from China, AND for cheaper. There is much more advanced manufacturing tech there now. You just need to buy from a reliable company that knows their shit.

Sometimes if it is just poor assembly quality you can patch it up yourself easily. If screws are unscrewing themselves out all that's needed is a little Loctite or lock nuts. The metal is still perfectly fine.

Sometimes it's just patents that drive up prices in the US, for some stupidly simple thing like a bike pedal patents shouldn't exist, and for practical purposes it would be laughable to have a patent on some low tech stuff like that in China.

Sure but I'm not really sure how that applies to the biking world and to the initial topic here.

Sure you can get various decent accessories from china, but for most of the basic maintainance you need to source proper components (drivetrain, brakes, tyres, suspensions) from respected brands. You can go to the LBS, let them do the work and pay a premium or you can do it yourself sourcing components online for half the price. You could also source the components to the LBS and do the work yourself but that's usually the more expensive solution. As it often happens the most ethical choice of willingly financing LBSs is only accessible to the rich.

Agreed. Bike shop business models are problematic and it's worth shopping around. My local shops sell a lot of stuff at reasonable prices and we have 4 shops in walking distance of each other so there's some competition but at times it feels like being ripped off. And it feels worse being ripped off by your neighbor somehow. When that happens I don't feel bad about getting stuff from nashbar or similar.

Pedals are a good example, ridiculously overpriced at the shops. Luckily we have a non-profit called "The Bike Collective" that strips donated bikes and sells parts super cheap, they also help with repairs.

> I have never even seen a bike shop sell this brand ("ROCKBROS").

RockBros is a Chinese brand. I have a few of their parts and in my experience they're pretty well made.

Exactly. I support local businesses if they're reasonable. I get that rent and everything can add a bit to the cost. But if they're just greedy scam artists asking 2-3x the price you can get online for everything, expecting your charity just for being local, then I won't shed a tear when they go bankrupt.

If it's got very fancy colors it's a shitty plastic throwaway product. Shimano pedals are not fancy but they are cheap for what they are and built to survive a nuclear war.

It has fancy colors and made of anodized aluminum. There is zero plastic in it.

Looks like you've gotten a good product for your use case. But flat pedals like that are generally intended for mountain bikes and I bet I know which of those two products is more likely to shatter into pieces if it glances off a rock.

>Buying and supporting local is a luxury for the rich.

This is extremely myopic. The entire point of cycling-as-transit, is that, as an investment, it's by far the most inexpensive alternative. If you're under the assumption that you'll already have a car, or free access to transit, or live on campus, then I see your argument. However, cycling as an alternative to these things is wildly, wildly inexpensive, even factoring in bikes that cost thousands of dollars.

The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually. The cost of maintaining an automobile is about $8000 annually, it's just that the costs are broken up into micropayments on things like fuel or hiding in the depreciation.

First of all I didn't own a car. You're right that it's several thousand dollars annually and that's why I didn't own a car.

> The cost of luxuriously maintaining a bicycle is about $100-$200 annually

That's if you fix it yourself. I spent <$100/year on maintaining my bike.

Changing brake pads at a bike shop cost upwards of $60. Wheel truing, probably >$200. Attempting to buy brake pads and refusing brake pad changing service usually involved a stupid long conversation with them to convince them you didn't need service, and they would price gouge you on the brake pads. With Amazon it cost me a grand total of $8 for the new pads, shipping included, and not having to convince anyone that I'm competent at fixing my own bicycle.

I once had a pedal stuck in my crank and just needed a longer wrench with more leverage to get it out. Damn bike shop wouldn't sell me the wrench. They wanted to do it themselves and charged me fucking $40 for TWO MINUTES of work. WTF. Needless to say I never visited that shop again.

Again... I don't care about how much you, or I, spend on bikes. I'm a nerd, I do most of the work myself. You seem like that too.

I'm talking about cost in relation to alternatives. If the cost in relation to alternatives is low, then you can easily afford luxurious maintenance, as you'd be spending the same money, and lots more, paying for any alternative.

Well yes, if the alternatives are viable.

For someone on grad student income, owning a car is largely not viable, it's not even an alternative that is remotely in sight.

Just because the cost in relation to alternatives is low does not mean that you can easily afford luxurious maintenance. Some folks are poor, and spending more on x means less for y - and sometimes y is food or electricity.

Heck, that last one is true even if you aren't doing luxurious maintenance.

Local bike shops aren't exactly rolling in dough. If you ask your local car mechanic how much they'd charge to remove a stuck bolt you'll also encounter a labor minimum that'll be a lot more than $40.

Sure, but that's not really my problem. I'm not rolling in dough either, and that's why I don't usually use local bike shops.

If they want my business, they need to match what I can afford somehow.

I bought a bike last year. I've never seen anyone as unhelpful as the staff there. I even decided to start servicing more complicated parts (fork/shock) myself to avoid visiting places like this. Bay Area prices for labor are insane. Maybe I'll give wheels for truing somewhere local since it's tedious and I don't have that much time.

On the other hand I've lived in places where truing wheels, servicing suspension fork and other regular servicing was really worth it. Prices were good, wait (1-2 weeks in the summer) decent and you were sure that they did a good job. No screwing around just to have the customer get wheel out of true 1-2 weeks later, they'd rather tell me to replace the spokes when needed instead of doing a crappy job. Whatever needed to be replaced (rotor, brake pads etc.) during the service was sold at online-like prices.

I completely understand that plenty of local bike stores offer no value to anyone who can do basic maintenance. I hope they go bankrupt as early as possible. I'm not scared I'll run out of good bike stores. There's plenty of complicated tech that requires good technician. E-bikes and other trend also help.

You are under impression that your skill in fixing things is free. Vast majority of people can not change break pads, can not understand a youtube video explaining how, can not oil a chain, can not fix a flat. Ability to problem solve and fix things is how a trade person of handyman can make very good money, as even using a stud finder and putting a screw in the wall is arcane magic to lots of people.

This is tragic but this is current state of western civilization. Bring Shop back to school.

I doubt that the vast majority of people cannot understand a youtube video explaining how, nor that the vast majority of folks cannot oil a chain. Most folks can use a stud finder and put a screw in the wall and it seems like a rather poor reading of humanity to judge people on this, especially considering how many folks live in apartments that disallow holes in the wall (and have never had a need to learn the skill).

Maybe you need a better shop? A couple of weeks back I broke a couple of spokes (finally found the weight limit of a Gazelle Heavy Duty NL bike - probably about 200kg of people), they fixed the spokes, realigned the wheel, and replaced the chain for €35.