"...instead find a new reason not to get it."
Or continue an existing reason:
"Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes."
Or continue an existing reason:
"Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes."
There is uncertainty about long-term effects of both. There is no uncertainty about the short-term effects of COVID, which are magnitudes worse than the short-term effects of a vaccine. COVID for me was a multi-week flu that scared the shit out of me because I didn't know how bad it would get or if I'd live through it. I took months to get my smell/taste back, three months to get back to previous fitness levels, hair loss, and significant mental fog and memory problems. The jab was one day of tiredness and I ran a marathon two days after no problem.
I really can't fathom how anyone could put themselves and those around them at such great risk, rather than taking a vaccine.
As a 30-odd year old knowledge worker (vaccinated), that's the thing that affects my personal risk assessment the most right now.
I have a lot of trouble arguing with these people (friends, family) because I read daily about how bad covid is and they are simply ignorant. For some of them it's basically "he said, she said" (so like: who should I trust?) as if anti-vaxxers and science are on the same level of trustworthiness. And also when you talk about data they say something like "I don't trust the data" and rather trust some stupid people in their social circle. Also it appears like they feel like "vaccination can be bad", "covid can be bad (but not necessarily, my daughter had it and it was like the flu!)", so they rather try to avoid both. Yeah, logic...
Vaccine or not, you can still get covid and suffer the consequences depending on your body. So I dont see the point in getting a vaccine and suffer its long term consequences when it basically does nothing.
If you are saying it prevents covid death - you are wrong. Check England's data. More unvaccinated people are getting covid but they are dying less. Vaccinated people are getting covid less but the ones who died after getting covid are more. The math isn't adding up for the vaccines.
If only there was a way to objectively assess these things... Oh wait there is, it's called "doing a randomized controlled trial on more than 3 people" and "numerous observational studies from real world data"
And guess what ? From this data, you're 90% less likely to get severely ill and 95% less likely to die if you've been vaccinated, even with Delta.
> If you are saying it prevents covid death - you are wrong. Check England's data.
No he's right. Still about 95% protection against death from Delta.
> More unvaccinated people are getting covid but they are dying less.
Wrong.
> Vaccinated people are getting covid less but the ones who died after getting covid are more.
Still wrong. Unless you've been comparing vaccinated 80 year olds with unvaccinated 20 year olds maybe ?
Being vaccinated makes you 20-30 years younger in terms of your risk to die from Covid (source : https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e74...)
> The math isn't adding up for the vaccines.
Thanks for the brilliant demonstration.
Right
>the vaccine does nothing
Right
>there's zero reason to think there's any(side effects) from vaccines
Wrong
>More unvaccinated people are getting covid but they are dying less.
Right
>Being vaccinated makes you 20-30 years younger in terms of your risk to die from Covid (source : https://www.ft.com/content/0f11b219-0f1b-420e-8188-6651d1e74...)
Wrong(Lol medical advice from a Financial blog)
> Thanks for the brilliant demonstration.
Your welcome :*
It's like worrying about the long-term impact of breathing fire extinguisher powder while being engulfed by flames.
The government is not forcing me to get a security clearance.
The fact that some people don't recognize that gift as what it is because they've been misinformed is irrelevant because, well, whatever they believe is simply not true.
In this world, people with jobs are being fired for not getting vaccinated. It's not a small cohort either; it's the government and giant corporate entities.
There are a few notable exceptions, though, of employers that are not mandating vaccination. Pfizer, for one. The White House, for another. When the pharma that makes the thing, and the POTUS, who is making vaccination priority #1, don't require it, that is some laughably awful PR.
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/west-wing-playbook/2021... says the White House has as well.
> The White House didn’t even establish a vaccine mandate for its own staffers until last month, despite the shot being available to them early in the year.
Source? Are you saying unvaccinated people are out there murdering others? Do people no longer have functional immune systems?
Make "vroom vroom" noises while you wait, if it makes you feel better.
Apart from facing one's cognitive dissonance, fears and ignorance, there is none. Just overwhelming benefits. It's perfectly okay for society to require it.
If you want to take part in exchange, you must do it in terms acceptable to both parties. You are not entitled to take from society on whatever terms you dictate on your own.
NYC is notable for requiring it for indoor dining, gyms, and a few others. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/03/nyregion/nyc-vaccine-mand...
In nearly all other aspects of life, inflicting harm on others results in some sort of liability. Unsafe activities are regulated. However, in this time of massive death, massive hospitalization, massive long term health complications, basic safety is being thrown out the window to appease political tribalism.
Depending on where you live and who your political alignment is, the government is absolutely compelling you to get COVID.
But the local fire department isn't doing anything about it. Nobody around here is installing sprinklers as a precaution. They act like there is no fire at all.
Covid is a serious thing. But "engulfed by flames" is the exact overstatement that causes people to question the motivation of fear-mongers.
I'm vaccinated. I wear a mask. I think too many people are whipping up a frenzy for profit. Why don't we lockdown our highways when there are 600,000 deaths from auto accidents? Why not lockdown breweries when there are 2 million drunk-driving incidents? Why isn't there a frenzy over influenza?
Covid frenzy has a better marketing campaign. It's the kind of thing that has people claiming we are "engulfed by flames" when things get smoky.
We mandate seat belts, air bags, guard rails, road construction standards, backup cameras, crumple zones, and quite a few other elements involved in road safety. Per-mile road deaths have been on a precipitous decline for decades due to ongoing increases in safety mandates.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...
500000 hospitalizations (influenza)?
What deserves such incredible non-stop daily attention? Answer: whatever makes the most money.
I think initially the correct answer in the case of COVID-19 was more specifically: whatever endangers existing profits most. The whole situation spelled uncertainty at the beginning, and that's bad for everything where "business as usual" is highly profitable. The rushed response and large scale mismanagement this caused is what brought into existence the "never let a crisis go to waste" part that came after.
Also, according to [2], "The majority of people with diabetes have type 2 diabetes." So the majority of deaths are possibly preventable, which sounds familiar to the debate around COVID.
Finally, to suggest diabetes and coronaviruses are at all the same is an ignorant statement. It's not like _nobody_ cares about diabetes. It just happens to be its own tough nut to crack. What have you contributed to the body of knowledge about it?
> What deserves such incredible non-stop daily attention? Answer: whatever makes the most money.
Indeed. This is why I strictly limit my news consumption, but it's not completely useless. I scan for trends and dig into sources and details. The stuff I linked in this comment took me all of 5 minutes to find with Internet searches.
[1]: https://report.nih.gov/funding/categorical-spending#/
[2]: https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/diabetes
The idea of conflating other causes of death with COVID is just perfection over progress. Sure there are other systems that aren't perfect but that doesn't mean COVID isn't worth addressing.
GPs point is: compared to other drama, covid's hype seems out of proportion. I agree.
She's never had to do that because of a bad flu season. More than 90% of the adults in the hospital for COVID and 100% of the kids are unvaccinated.
People wouldn't even be discussing shutting down schools and businesses to get this under control if we had a 90% vaccination rate.
1) Risk of potential negative long-term health outcomes from COVID-19 vaccine.
2) Risk of potential negative health outcomes (long and short term) from COVID-19 infection.
As well as
3) Risk of potential negative non-health outcomes from COVID-19 infection (social and economic, risk of infecting others, risk of overrunning ICUs)
With a proper risk analysis vaccine 100% wins for the vast majority of people and it's not even close.
There are also sufficient rates of infection of even healthy subjects to warrant concern considering that Covid cases are far more serious than most Flu cases - another illness that affects the healthy far less but can still lead to hospitalisation or even death. Also, before you mention it, the fact that there are more deaths caused by the Flu than Covid statistically per year is due to the greater proliferation of the Flu virus and it's variants over Covid.
On an individual basis, you are far more likely to develop complications from Covid than Flu, even for healthy subjects.
You're misquoting me. What I said was "negative selection". My belief is, we need to let the immune systems of humans do what they're designed to do, and stop artificially selecting all humans to live for as long as possible, without regard for the quality of that life. Effectively, we need to live, die, and decay in a much more natural way, just like the plants and animals under my care do. Nothing healthy or positive, from a long-term genetic-health perspective, has ever come from me rescuing a feeble lamb, and bottle feeding it, medicating it, throughout most of its life. In fact, only the opposite happens. But I understand, most humans tend to only value today instead of 30-40 years down the road.
>Superbugs have nothing at all to do with vaccinations. You're getting tunnel vision'ed. Superbugs have been created by chemicals being sprayed onto fields, for no longer than 30-40 years. Superbugs have been created or emboldened by broad spectrum sanitization.
>On an individual basis, you are far more likely to develop complications from Covid than Flu, even for healthy subjects.
Maybe; though this seems largely a function of time at this point seeing how its been such a short time since Covid's been around. However, the likelihood of "complications" due to Covid is slim to none, on an individual basis, especially for healthy folks (according to the CDC.gov data, assuming our census numbers are correct'ish).