The internet nowadays is a bit stale by comparison, crypto seems to be where the action and energy is.
At this point, it seems like pure promotion, marketing & propaganda fueled by social media, a negative externality of the internet itself.
Simple equation: trash in, trash out. But sure, "a man's trash can be another's treasure".
Note: Visa's strategy is a no brainer as a business move. 150k is nothing on their marketing budget to gain exposure & PR targeting generation Z and millennials (future customers). Even if it fails, this acquisition has value as a stance because their customers (young adopters and old investors) want to be "supported", at least ideologically. Ex: "Progressive", "We were on your side, remember?"
I suggest reading their marketing whitepaper: https://usa.visa.com/content/dam/VCOM/regional/na/us/Solutio...
Today cryto provides the only way to perform a money transaction outside of the censored markets. An example, onlyfans, poor hub decided to ditch a type of content to please visa/mastercard. Cryto would allow society to ignore forced morals on money transactions. If what onlyfans provide is legal visa should not be allowed to shut them down on moral terms.
It may not be useful to you. The internet wasn't useful to most in 1995. It might be more useful in a few years where the masses have joined and the network effect is in place.
I remember when computers were seen as not useful in the 80s.. a toy that could do very little. Things change quickly.
Criminals, the third world, a certain class of the first world all users use it.
Who knows what the future holds but the next few years might be more marketing vs technology improvements in cryto. The problem with adoption is a big one to tackle next and moves like this help.
To me most criticism of NFTs is reminiscent of criticisms of modern art. Very few understand the scope of what "non fungible token" means. There are PLENTY of use-cases for a publicly verifiable token issued by a 3rd party and owned by you, other than art, if you just use a little imagination.
For example, Steam games can be traded user to user on the platform, but it's all at the whims of Valve. At any moment Valve could shut down, freeze your account, disable trading etc.
For example crypto art can be uploaded that’s a direct copy of someone else’s artwork. Copyright doesn’t care about the NFT at that point you don’t own the image.
For NFTs specifically, you still have to trust whatever chain and transaction says you actually own it. And there's nothing that stops someone else from also claiming they own the original except for the centralized statement of the originating party; nevermind the fact that digital bytes have no "original" anyway.
Why might you want that? See https://www.eff.org/issues/icann
A generalized system for selling and validating ownership of digital things makes implementing ticketing easier than building an entire digital ticketing ecommerce site up from scratch.
Ethereum gives you digital wallets, ownership tracking, ownership verification, resale markets via 3rd parties or p2p, and digital wallets natively.
The possibilities are both horrifying and wonderful.
NFTs have a soft landing if/as crypto whales diversify into NFTs. Traditionally, collectibles are a much smaller market than commodities and currencies because their uniqueness reduces their liquidity. The "huge" art market ($50B) is dwarfed by precious metals ($10+T).
both are "artistic" to a certain degree, completely useless after the purchase and initial exchange.
I can’t hang an NFT in my house. And doing so with Hallmark cards has tangible benefits to my well being. (the joy of seeing a thoughtful card with personal meaning, conversation starter if company is over, etc)
Perhaps something will be invented to reproduce that experience for NFTs, but I haven’t seen it yet.
edit: Format and speeling
I met the founder a few weeks ago. He told me that some of his clients spend a few thousands for a 3x3 meters mural representing a NFT.
That might not seem as meaningful as hanging them in your house, but I've watched it become that meaningful for a ton of people (as "irrational" as I think both NFTs and Hallmark cards are).
Is there a reason why people couldn't be granted a license to do whatever they wanted with an NFT? Seems kind of arbitrary to do so, but I'm sure there's a reason why it's like that.
For that price, you're getting all the rights to it in perpetuity.
recent NFT projects like Nouns[1] and many others have taken this approach!
"Legitimacy is a pattern of higher-order acceptance. An outcome in some social context is legitimate if the people in that social context broadly accept and play their part in enacting that outcome, and each individual person does so because they expect everyone else to do the same."
The token is conceptually tied to the artwork. This is especially true with digital & software-driven work embedded within the blockchain, such as Deafbeef's tokens[1].
These issues are not new to crypto. Plenty of art is only 'conceptually' tied to their distributed editions. For example: an artist or photographer may own a digital master or photographic negative, and from that they may decide to produce and distribute 50 printed and signed editions. The distributed work is valued not because of the material (a piece of paper) or its contents (a rendered image), because it was distributed and signed by the artist's hand. Anybody could photocopy that print to produce the same rendered contents, or even print their own copy if they have access to a high resolution file and inkjet printer, but the copy would be worth no value, because it did not come from the artist's hand.
What you are asking is similar to Found Art. A signed toilet is not "Art" until social consensus decides that it is. An blockchain-signed Eiffel Tower is also not art, unless society says it to be so. Perhaps that will happen at some point in the future (an artist's digital reinterpretation of Found Art) but at present the crypto artworks we are mostly regarding tend to have a more direct relationship with what the artist/creator is producing by hand (or via digital code/software).
It is not much different than a print series, where the artist says the prints signed in pencil are "the artwork", and social consensus decides that only those pieces of paper with the artist's own pencil signature are valuable, instead of a reproduction by a machine or by a forger, even though the reproduction may have the same or similar material qualities.
At a conceptual level, I think the connection is more to do with “this NFT was minted by the artist’s hand (wallet), the same hand that created the artwork it points to.”
Nobody who purchases a CryptoPunk today would expect to receive a JPG or media file of a pixelated avatar in return for their purchase. Rather, they would expect to receive ownership over the token (i.e. record in a distributed ledger). In the case of CryptoPunks, there is not even any "hyperlink" in the NFT – it is just an integer from 0 to 9999, stored within the state of the CryptoPunks contract.[1]
Do they hold ownership over the media file, or pixel artwork? No. Do they hold ownership over a digital token that (according to the project's creator, and according to social consensus) represents part of the CryptoPunks art project? Yes.
[1] - https://etherscan.io/token/0xb47e3cd837ddf8e4c57f05d70ab865d...
The social consensus says what? Obviously the NFT promoters want the public to believe that the NFT is part of an art collection, and this is why they use this ambiguous language that is intended to create the false impression that the NFT and the piece of art are the same thing or at least are closely connected with one another, and indeed the uneducated public will tend to believe that, but this a belief that is founded upon a lie. Anyone who actually knows what an NFT is is very unlikely to agree that these NFTs are part of an art project or have an artistic intent.
> Anyone who actually knows what an NFT is is very unlikely to agree that these NFTs are part of an art project or have an artistic intent.
This is pretty presumptuous, and also wrong. One such counter-example is ZKM, which began acquiring NFTs in 2018.[2]
[1] - https://superrare.com/artwork/right-click-and-save-as-guy-11...
But that would require a distribution of NFT in excess of 1.
People are not minting 50 or 500 NFTs which are all the same as in your example.
People are minting 1 NFT and selling it . At that point one person (the buyer) has the original and the rest of people on the internet just screenshots it to have a 1:1 identical piece of art, which are all just the same as the original.
Plus your example also forgets one important element: the scarcity of the time and the social relationships of the artist. The 50 printed and signed editions are considered worthy because the artist had to subtract time from whatever other activity they had planned in order to sign the copies.
Once you make the process of "signing NFTs" automatized (like for example making a transaction on the blockchain via smart contract) the whole magic and scarcity of it disappears.
Maybe you could secure the scarcity by making it expensive for the artist to mint the NFT, but then they'd be the ones protesting and not adopting the tech.
The buyer holds the token (cryptographically secured to their wallet). Any person can save the JPG that is conceptually tied to the token, but that does not give them ownership over the artistic token (i.e. they cannot transfer it to another wallet).
Part of the challenge here is that it gets to the question of "art ownership" in a digital domain. If you own a JPG, do you own the artwork? According to the artist who is distributing the work as a token, and also according the social consensus of others who are collecting art in this way, the answer is no.
It does take time and fees to deploy to the blockchain, in the same way that it takes time and fees to produce a series of print artworks. My own project (Subscapes[2]) required a significant investment, to upload 17kb of generative art code onto the blockchain.
[1] - https://artblocks.wiki/
[2] - https://mattdesl.substack.com/p/subscapes-part-1-preface
But according to the rest of the world the answer is 'Yes'
The rest of the world thinks that in order for something to be considered original that thing has to be hard to replicate
Replicating an NFT is as easy as doing a screenshot or Right clic > 'Save as' . And any random internet user stumbling upon that NFT can do it.
In order to replicate a painting such as the Mona Lisa you need millions of dollars of equipment and millions of dollars to pay experts who'd do so without ruining the sole original, and still won't be the same as the original.
Maybe subtle nuances not even discernible by the human eye, but still after millions of dollars of equipment, millions of man hours you don't have something which is 1:1 as the original Mona Lisa. With NFTs is again as easy as screenshots or Right clic > 'Save as'
It depends who you ask, and when you ask it. The understanding of 'digital ownership' may be shifting, as we can see in real-time with the OP thread, where Visa is making a claim that their ownership over the digital token is distinctly different than their ownership over the digital JPG file (and, apparently, distinct enough that they felt it worth paying a large sum to acquire).
Indeed, anybody can reproduce a JPG by right clicking and saving the image, and there are many valuable artworks in art history that can be reproduced with seemingly little effort — such as all white canvases (Malevich), splashes of paint (Pollock), and handwritten instructions on scrap paper (LeWitt).
And I do not think anybody previous to NFTs would make a claim that they "own" an artist's work because they captured it via "Right Click > Save As."
Another way to view this is: ownership of digital art is not a notion that had much social consensus around it before the advent of NFTs.
I don't mean to disrespect artists but when all is said and done the only question that matters is:
"Will a museum pay me, the owner of the piece of art to have it in their collection, so I can generate passive income from it?"
In the case of real pieces of art the answer is positive.
If this critical component is missing then you are left with a market where you can only sell for profit to an individual bigger fool.
2-D NFTs won't ever pass this test, 3-D NFTs are also in bad shape because museums are a social activity, something the regular person does to shield themselves from the summer heat while at the park with their SO.
Nobody dreams of logging into a 3-D museum , alone in their living while wearing an Oculus.
Art is a real world, social activity. The process of distributing art is a real world, social activity. Blockchain won't change this.
And to answer your question: museums and institutions have been collecting 2D and 3D digital art, VR, code based art, etc for years. The NFT space provides new technologies that can be used here, and an alternative distribution channel & market for this type of work.
Of course they are. Same as with prints: singular pieces, editions of X, editions of "only available for 48 hours, everyone who buys in that time gets one", ... all are options artists use.
Crypto skepticism is still a fairly mainstream position, it’s not unique to HN.
HN does tend to be especially bitter towards Crypto, something that I think will fade with time as it blends into culture without seeming like some "charlatan intruder from elsewhere".
I tend to think the rise of NFT markets represents an inflection point that will only be obvious when we connect the dots looking backwards. Plenty of people reviled Duchamp.
P.s. Please let me know where I can purchase an Alpha-Centauri real-estate NFT