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Comment by literallyaduck | Hacker News Reader

So if you are "doing the crime" leave your electronics behind?

No. You give it to an accomplice who continues using it consistent with your typical usage patterns. That way you not only avoid a digital trail, you generate a digital alibi.

I suspect in 20 years, walking down the street without a digital radio in your pocket will arouse suspicion though.

At some point they’d probably figure out how to use the accelerometer to fingerprint your movements. Your accomplice will almost certainly have a different profile for how the phone moves when walking.

I guess you could limit accomplice activities to things like driving around.

The resolution is probably already there now. AI can do gait recognition based on video, and sensor traces from accelerometers are accurate enough to detect individual footsteps. Are they precise enough to recognize gait? I don't know. But they can easily distinguish between walking, jogging, running, and riding a bike.

iPhone is already precise enough to tell how much time you spend on the left leg, right leg and both legs down. Sure they have a walking profile.

> Are they precise enough to recognize gait? I don't know.

Yes. [0] And that's hardly the only paper on achieving the technique.

[0] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25423662/

And that assumes no CCTV (which will sooner or later be 4k).

An EMP in a backpack. How powerful could one make a portable EMP?

A faraday cage would probably be better.

I was just thinking about a fanny pack with faraday shielding sewn into the fabric. Kinda like PacSafe products.

The amp is for taking out cameras :)

EMP would destroy the surveillance infrastructure. Faraday cage only shields your own electronics.

There are RF-shielded bags, wallets, and purses.

https://privacypros.io/faraday-bags/

there is no way to make an EMP of useful effect without high explosives

An accomplice is a liability though. Also it's harder to make it rhyme. "If you're doing a felony, give your phone to Melanie."

Yea, that whole, "How do you keep a secret between three people?". Kill the other two.

Yup they could turn state's witness or blackmail you. Plus they'll want a cut of the spoils if there are any. Better to establish a pattern of leaving your phone untouched at home. Assuming you're planning it ahead of time that is.

Or do the deed in those convenient 5-8 hour blocks of sleep where you don't use your phone

Melonie rhymes better !

This is well into "tin foil hat" territory for me personally, but I've stopped automatically putting my phone in my pocket when I go out for an errand.

I lived the first fifteen years of my life without a "phone" on me at all times, and I don't see why I need one now.

I frequently carry a dumbphone, powered off, charged, with no sim card.

This allows it to be powered on and emergency services called if necessary. (911/112 works fine without a SIM.)

I've debated getting a cheap/tiny phone like a Unihertz Jelly Pro with a Redpocket sim card to just keep in the car for emergencies. So far I just leave my phone at home unless I'm going on a longer trip.

For true life safety emergencies you don't even need the SIM/subscription as 911 will still work.

For sub-life safety personal emergencies, I can usually just wait until wi-fi.

Well if your car breaks there's not going to be any wi-fi coming along.

No, you play a game that incentivizes walking and get a little rocker cradle thing that makes it appear to the game like you're walking many hours a day, then drop your phone into that before leaving.

"We're sure he did it, he hatched 12k eggs at the same time!"

>I suspect in 20 years, walking down the street without a digital radio in your pocket will arouse suspicion though.

Reading things like this makes me think of climate change messing up infrastructure and space junk making it impossible to operate satellites is maybe for the better.

Laws have obviously failed in keeping technology at bay from concentrating power in the hands of a few. Maybe nature can help reverse this.

In a rather well-known murder case in Spain, they made a detention based on the fact the suspect had turn off his phone around the time of the crime.

Have a link? Surely no justice system only uses that evidence, but it could indeed be supporting evidence.

I think it was this case, but I'm not 100% sure. I saw it discussed on a group...

https://www.antena3.com/noticias/sociedad/pederasta-ciudad-l...

If my phone was stuck in the same place an entire day, that would be really suspicious.

On the other hand for those of us who relax at home over the weekend, that would be entirely normal. I hope leisure without a digital tether isn't so unheard of that it becomes suspicious automatically.

I usually pick up my phone in the course of a day spent around my house. But if I don't do so on a given day--or certainly for multiple hours on a given day--that wouldn't be anything especially strange.

Attach it to you dog’s collar.

You've never spent a day at home?

Until a year ago, no. I made it a point to go outside to do something at least once every day. :(

Well, if I don't step outside the door I am most likely sick. I don't want to stay indoors at home one full day. I feel bad if I don't go out.

I lose my phone in my house every so often.

I’ve posted about having a phone walker service

A courier or ride share driver can have an additional service that fairies phones around and pollutes location data. Maybe even charge the phones too

Since most location data is based on WiFi stations it should be possible to record that data and play it back to the phone in the comfort of wherever you are.

Possibly GPS too, though probably an order of magnitude more complex to achieve.

That can also be used in court (e.g. “Pretty odd you just happened to turn your phone off for the first time in a decade during the exact timeframe of this crime.”). Ideally, you’d “lose” your phone a few weeks to a month before the crime and then get one afterwards.

Just have two phones. Problem solved. Drive a vehicle without onstar or cellular connection.

Wouldn’t the second phone put you at the scene of the crime?

As an aside, working for an automotive manufacturer (my opinions are my own and doing reflect my employer, etc) I think were rapidly approaching a time when all new vehicles will have a built-in cellular connection.

And remote engine kill. This will be used to prevent upset citizens from attending protests, riots, and other forms of civilian uprising.

Yes, because law enforcement would want tens of thousands of vehicles disabled in the roadways to obstruct their ability to do anything.

You won’t even make it to the highway.

someone i know bought a chevy cruze , yup cell ?phone? integrated into the console.

antenna and lead, gone , circuit trace to antenna input severed and sent to ground, power lead for SOIC desoldered and given manual toggle.

The second phone would, but if you're smart you would cycle through burners, never take it home with you, never carry it with your main. Prepaid phones are cheap.

It also doesn't take much to rip onstar out of vehicles considering how many of them go from Texas to Mexico.

NHTSA keeps mandating new tech crap in cars on extremely questionable putatively utilitarian models. Infotainment systems are effectively mandatory now. The recent "infrastructure" bill also included language about investigating mandatory DUI-detection technology in new cars. Getting a vehicle without cellular is going to be impossible soon. My 2020 Tacoma (a pretty bare-bones pickup) even has a cellular modem.

Just disconnect the antenna?

It throws an error code, meaning you fail inspection in many states.

I didn't know there are such inspections.

Cellular is required for the car to be able to automatically call emergency services in case of an accident. It is mandatory for new cars in Europe for a while.

So it's like a Japanese sword? You carry it all your life to use it once? Except that the European sword spys on its owner. Dump it.

I sometimes wonder if government really wants to end DUI's.

I know it sounds crazy.

I just see the amount of money marginal dui's bring into counties.

I might buy a vechicle that didn't let me drive if over .08%.

I would love to be able to drive after 10:30 pm, without a cop tailing me, looking for a marginal dui.

(In Marin County, don't drive through here after 10:30 pm. Cops gave literally nothing to do, except look for marginal dui's. There used to be a app called Trapster, but it was never implemented properly. You might get a pass on a pull over if you look wealthy though. Wealthy Ross/Kentfield guys never seem to get any "fishing" pullovers. No--I have never had a dui. I just know how these cops operate. I'm getting tired of poor people being singled out too. I mentioned my county, because I know a few of you guys live here.)

If they really wanted to get rid of DUIs, places would be designed in a way that discouraged it

Requiring cars to get around ensures DUIs will happen

The incentives between the federal government and local police departments probably aren't aligned here, but they're probably not aligned in a lot of other places, too.

I don't know why I think so much about crime (not murder, but larceny, and safe cracking), but I do.

I have come to the conclusion that because of the proliferation of cheap tech (Mainly cameras everywhere), pulling off successful capers in exponentially harder than it was 15 years ago.

It used to be getting away is lighting up the tires, and you are gone.

Now--cops that aren't just Revenue Collecting can get a treasure trove of info just asking for cam footage.

Hell, even carrying around construction tools can arouse suspicion if pulled over.

I guess it's for the best? There is still a bit of me rooting for the clever thief.

Do crimes that cops don't care to investigate and it doesn't matter how easy they are to investigate.

The trail of evidence grows exponentially, but most cops are terrible art collecting the best evidence (partly because law/jurisprudence makes it difficult).

Most cops still use fax as the primary method of requesting evidence from companies that are geographically distant. Collecting video camera evidence is slow and tedious so long as the department doesn’t have a volunteer database where residents can publish their location and other metadata. Filing requests digitally is still infrequent and usually done on portals specifically designed by tech companies to automate the tech company’s side.

The moment there is a single portal which links lots of data which automated the police side of the legwork for all systems which support automation, that is when police start to actually collect a significant portion of the exponential data being collected.

Make a living by conducting an ongoing series of < $950 thefts in San Francisco?

Those vehicles are harder to find every year, and increasingly more conspicuous on the road.

Hard to find yes. More conspicuous? I don't think so. Lots of people have old cars, and the median car age keeps climbing.

In less than 2 decades regulations supported by car makers, insurance corporations and the government themselves will outlaw cars not fitted with such systems.

Little known, the airbags already have the last 15s of driving before accidents. They act as a recording box. This was setup pretendedly because NGOs were worried about airbags triggering at the wrong time, so they have to save the last 15s of the CAN bus (brakes, speed, radio usage, wheel position, turn indicators, faults…).

I'm sure that most criminals know to either turn phones off or leave them behind, and if they don't they surely will if this kind if thing becomes more widespread. This seems like a system designed to ensnare innocents.

Not all crime is premeditated and most people aren't described as criminals.

i had an LEO [homocide] tell me that most murders are committed in a less than thinking state of mind, and solved in about 15 minutes.

Wtf is "homocide" though?

it is the key right next to homicide on the keyboard.

I would assume this LEO works in a relatively low-crime area. I know that where I am most murders remain unsolved and and the shootings that I’ve witnessed appear to be premeditated.

i have a feeling this may be related to prevalence of 'willing" witnesses.

1] leave phone on remove battery remove sim, live life

2] insert sim insert battery turn on phone , make call/text

3] goto 1

remove battery

Okay, but once I'm done with the hammer, how do I get the battery back in?

ah i see you have one of the new phones, as an aside, ATT decided for me to disable my phone that had no problems and sent a phone that is now never more than three bars and usually two bars, and needs recharging daily.

this phone [alcatel flip], surprisingly doesnt have the battery glued in.

in the case of battery glued in you need a nonconductive shim to jam between the contacts

You don't, just throw it in the fire on the homestead

Lots go unsolved in the US, and that figure is over 50% in many places. A pretty interesting story with graphics/data interleaved: https://urbanobservatory.maps.arcgis.com/apps/Cascade/index....

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