Apple Just Gave Millions of Users a Reason to Quit Their iPhones

You could stop buying iStuff on principle otherwise they'll just continue with this crap.

As for alternatives, anything would do. Android doesn't do client side scanning of files since that's your chief concern. If you want more you can always root and play around.

> I want to leave Apple, but I can't find a good alternative and iMessage might be the dollar-store adhesive keeping me to the lesser of two evils.

Can't learn unless you try things.

I for one am happy with stock android and signal/telegram/whatsapp/sms.

I have freedom to root/modify as much as I want, I'm not forced to accept arbitrary company policies.

I was watching a pinephone update video. It highlighted that it now had smooth hardware accelerated video playback. That was a feature released on the original iPhone …I don’t want to go back to Windows Mobile/PalmOS days where you never know if you will be able to play a YouTube video.

If you really wanted to quit you could get a pixel and install lineageOS or CalyxOS. Now I agree that's jumping through a lot of hoops to get your privacy but it's all based on how much you value that.

I personally like to believe that I value my privacy but de-googling sounds like a large inconvenience. The cynic in me also partially believes that it's pointless and another company will just be(gin) churning my data.

I was thinking of switching from my pixel to an iphone but this recent misstep by apple has dissolved the belief I've had that they are a privacy centric company.

> I could go to linux phones, except no, they have absolutely no concept of competence in any form, and frequently die with less than two hours of battery life under their belts.

We might have to accept a solution that is technically inferior, yet overall superior. There is no guarantee that the quality of available consumer products is a monotonic function, so we shouldn't act like it is.

And perhaps it is time to experiment with a lifestyle that has less smartphone involvement.

> I could go to linux phones, execpt no, they have absolutely no concept of competence in any form, and frequently die with less than two hours of battery life under their belts.

It's the best time to start seriously investing development resources in this alternative.

No phone.

> I want to leave Apple

Go back to a feature phone. That's always an option. After all, we could all live just fine with them until 2007.

I have tried a few times to move back to feature phones, but it has gotten exceedingly difficult nowadays. What I currently think is missing is a containerization/virtualization solution where you run something like lineageOS as a host, and then apps are run in their own virtualized containers. Ideally host can feed containers either actual data from the hardware (location etc) or some spoofed profile/gps/sensor data, say, profile 1 for some apps: single mom living in small midwest city, profile 2 for some other apps: megarich guy globetrotting the worlds famous places etc. All while the actual phone is sitting on your table.

I went with GrapheneOS and F-Droid. There's not many apps and the quality is lacking, however I feel relieved that my phone isn't spying on me anymore (allegedly).

> I might decide to root/jailbreak, but that's the kind of resistance that invites malicious intruders to take advantage of the broken security models of our duopolist platform economics to sell my data to the highest bidder.

While I don't agree with that assessment, the more important question is: would jailbreaking my device reliably prevent Apple from scanning my photos? I really doubt so. Moreover, it would be difficult to prove it either way.

I think the easiest option is https://e.foundation/

A few months ago, I got a Pixel and installed CalyxOS on it. I'm self hosting Nextcloud for my files. It involves a bit of maintenance work to keep it going, but I take the adage "Program or be programmed" seriously.

If I ever got lazy, I'd switch to an /e/ phone.

> To What, though?

> This is the problem I'm currently struggling with.

> I could go to Android, which is relatively good but still run by Google (one of the most data-hungry corporations around). I kind of want the Z Flip 3, but not if it's running the kind of operating system that thinks of me as a data source and not a customer.

> I could go to linux phones, execpt no, they have absolutely no concept of competence in any form, and frequently die with less than two hours of battery life under their belts.

> I might decide to root/jailbreak, but that's the kind of resistance that invites malicious intruders to take advantage of the broken security models of our duopolist platform economics to sell my data to the highest bidder.

> This isn't a rhetorical position: what do I do in this scenario? I want to leave Apple, but I can't find a good alternative and iMessage might be the dollar-store adhesive keeping me to the lesser of two evils.

Best option is lineage os, or cyanogenmod as it used to be called.

I agree that we only have the choice between the devil and the deep blue sea concerning mobile OS.

But why is iMessage so great (asking as a non-apple user)? Is it even e2e?

Great alternatives which are not locked into a specific OS are Signal, Threema, and Matrix.

Specifically, Matrix -- which is also a protocol -- looks quite interesting to me. Similar to email, you can choose your client software. You are also free to set up your own matrix server but you don't have to.

I'm in a similar position.

Linux phones seem like an okay option. Replacing my Mac with a System76 was an easier option.

Open source hardware and software seems like the only sustainable option long term. If it's not ready today, that's okay, it needs support to get there.

More discussion about Linux phones here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28164208

> To What, though?

That's not the right way to think of this. The point is to send a strong message to Apple that this is not cool. Just as people didn't buy MacBooks without Esc keys, or bad butterfly mechanisms.

The MacBook itself got popular because the most technically knowledgeable people used them, got their families to use them, and was seen using them.

As Apple sees their numbers, they will put 1+1 together and decide that it's not worth it for them--they're a company out to make profits. It doesn't matter how much people complain if they keep buying. This makes a better Apple, and we can then again purchase the Apple products that live up to our standards. If we say, it sucks but it's better than the other one, this is a downward slope with no recovery.

> If you have nothing good to say - don't say anything.

I can't describe how incredibly stupid this is. This is peak dystopia. An absurd example from history - "maybe we should rethink the Inquisition, no? They are kidnapping and torturing people based on no evidence" "Don't be a downer!".... "Let's brainstorm on this religion thing a bit with its pointless wars, flying airplanes into buildings and killing people?" "If you don't have anything good to say, don't."

Now - Matrix and Signal exists, but it takes two to tango. If you have no one to message there, because everybody uses iMessage/WhatsApp/Messenger, you are screwed.

Open source phones and PCs exist, but they are much more expensive for the same configuration and the open source software has its own problems. Just look at the whole Linux landscape. I just looked up System76 laptop with i7, 8 GB RAM and 240 GB SSD - it comes out at 1300 dollars. That's more than the brutto average wage in my country for the same configuration that costs about 700 dollars if you buy from mainstream brands.

I got disillusioned with open source when I tried connecting an iPhone to Linux. This is what it looks like in 2021 - https://itsfoss.com/iphone-antergos-linux/ . Full of esoteric terminal commands which operate a program written by some dude from who knows where with no guarantees what it really does, because I am not gonna bother learning about iPhone+Linux+USB delicacies enough to understand that code.

So in my opinion, it's easier to actually regulate the big corp overlords.

I think most people want their privacy but they are either unaware or haven't realized the true extent at how much data companies have on them or what they're doing on your devices.

I believe most people would be outraged if they bought a home and the homeowner's association had the right to go into their house any time of day and review all the photos they took claiming that it's a policy to protect the kids for child porn.

Cloud feudalism. The king has now changed the rules, you sigh and despair, but it's hard to move to a new kingdom, and the other kingdom doesn't even seem that nice.

The majority will not change phones..

The concern is not as much about what this system does today as it is what it could easily expand to do tomorrow.

A list of banned content that lives on your phone sets a new and alarming precedent.

I've heard all the arguments. I've had this conversation 10 times now, I already know what all the replies will say. I'll save you all the time, you can downvote me here.

Here's how the conversation goes:

Android User: "With Android I could just turn off Google Cloud"

iOS User: "Apple also only scans as part of iCloud upload process also. So just disable iCloud Photos"

Android User: "But that's a slippery slope! They COULD scan all content of the phone with no effort!"

iOS User: "But they're not currently, and don't plan to. Doing it locally makes it some-what auditable. Also their system as designed would only work for data uploaded to iCloud."

Android User: "So you TRUST Apple to just not add that capability later!? What if a government forces them to?"

iOS User: "So you trust Google not to aswell? If any Government forces Apple to add this on-device, they would certainly require the same of Android"

Android User: "But Apple COULD add it more easily, because this is clearly a backdoor!"

iOS User: "I don't think that word means what you think it means"

Google refused China's requests and got banned there. Apple did neither.

On the other hand, if they still adamantly push this feature forward, it shows that there are some vested interests(Apple or otherwise) in wanting this feature in, PR be damned.

I think time can tell. I believe the NeuralHash is obviously flawed and they know it too. Hence they have the human moderators to look through the content.

I feel what might really happen is that the moderators may end up leaking someone’s private pictures. I think there was another thread earlier on HN which talked about how Apple’s repair team did something similar with someone’s photos, and there is also Apple’s iCloud disaster that happened with the actresses.

But I feel the Pandora’s box is already opened with regard to this. Even if Apple may not relent to another government’s desires to add extra things to be checked for, the various governments of the world may want to implement something like this on their own, if they haven’t already.

> I trust Androids even less than a CSAM'd Apple.

I think that's understandable, but it's too broad. There are things like GrapheneOS and Calyx.

Check out https://e.foundation/

Yes

You understand correctly what Apple claims is their current policy (which, while probably true, could be changed whenever they want, or whenever they're convinced/compelled to by external forces).

Outside of controversial implementation with on device "processing" is the fact that a third party - private corporation funded by DOJ (30+ millions)can change hashes. Nobody publicly can check this because of the sensitive nature of the materials. This system will be exported to all the world.

If you're going to do something truly devious, do it in the name of protecting children.

Algorithm may decide picture of building is a child porn. That is problem.