Peer recognition works better than bonuses | Hacker News Reader

Peer recognition works better than bonuses

lancengym.medium.com

44 pointslancengym47 comments

To me, the article reads as if the author is fresh out of university, hopped up on a number of "we found money wasn't a motivator" studies (which are, in fact, more like "money wasn't a motivator after certain level of money has been achieved").

It's also deeply ingrained with cultural biases, such as "flaunting it" (which is highly normalized in places like Hong Kong or Singapore, but would be a lot more frowned upon in some European places, for example).

My personal 2c is that I have a ton of "recognition" at work. It feels extremely hollow when a VP is "celebrating" what a great job my team has done and yet has no idea what we've done (other than "have satisfied customers"). Words are cheap to me. Might be just me.

Personal recognition is very different (e.g. a colleague saying "wow, I'd have never thought of this workaround") but that has nothing to do with salary or compensation.

Words are cheap in all kinds of relationships. Actions always matter. Hence in the case of work relationships, it’s all about promotions, salary increases, good projects, etc.

VP: Terrific job this year, everyone gather round and give this team a round of applause, your work has single handedly saved the company.

Bonus time VP: You should see how fast my new tesla accelerates. My new house is so disorientating, all these big rooms I cant figure out what all these light switches turn on or off. Btw the bonus pool wasnt big enough to pay you much this year, but we really appreciate your efforts.

I chuckled because this is really true. All my VP does is meetings (where its chatting about stuff), status reports and the answer to all problems is "hire more"

If only engineers knew what a scam it is to have themselves do all the dev, test, on-call work while all the stock refreshers go to this fool sitting on a chair, all work would stop.

Seriously, America needs to bring back the culture of strikes.

Yeah ... I work for money ... recognition, friends, fun with cool tech, this I can get from the rest of my life ... as long as the job gives me the ONLY thing it's good for - money.

I feel this piece may have been written by someone at a C level position who has forgotten or not been in touch with regular workers for a long time. Is this just their validation to avoid compensating well performing individuals?

Don't know about you all, but recognition at the workplace - the company wide email with good start types, not the direct feedback types - has always felt insincere and manufactured to me.

To the first point, 100%, the section about "extra zeroes in your bank account" is super tone deaf.

Absolutely. Extra zeroes matter a lot when you have only 6 to begin with.

Maybe I would feel differently if I was an investor / entrepreneur / thinker and not a simple, if well compensated, peasant.

I skimmed it. Came away with a similar impression. I'm always deeply suspicious when people, from a position of extreme privilege and financial security, talk about how money doesn't matter.

I read a piece years ago that said the only true signal of recognition in business is money: everything else is just sentiment. Good wishes will not pay your bills or feed your family.

Bosses: if you really want to recognise good work, pay a bonus, or give a salary bump. Stock can also be a viable option, but everything else is simply fluff.

LOL.

Oh yes, let's look at the modern company and how "peer recognition" works.

First 30 minutes of a meeting: CEO runs his mouth about random company shit, spits out the new workplace catchphrases he learned at whatever business leadership summer camp he went to, and pats everyone on their heads for being good girls and boys.

Next 20 minutes is awards time, sleezeball sales director stands in front of everyone and hands out awards with cash prizes to salespeople who have already been overcompensated for their work.

Maybe sprinkle in 5 minute segments in here and there, for managers and directors to pat their secretaries and underlings on the head for rising "above and beyond."

Meanwhile, the people who actually BUILT the product the company relies on to make money sit there, twiddling their thumbs, waiting for personal recognition that will never ever happen.

Fuck that. I can't eat recognition, it won't pay my medical bills, and it won't fund my kids' college tuition. Either pay me or shut the fuck up and stop wasting our time.

But non of that is _peer_ recognition. HR is not your peer, your boss is probably not your peer, your coworkers are probably your peers.

I would think that your peers are the people you socialize with. If you never had a non work-related conversation with someone, you most likely don't see them as your peer.

People pretending to be your peers, pretending to appreciate you, wont feel rewarding. But you willingly do things for the people you like and hang around with without remuneration. Is your wife, your sibliblings, or your friendly neighbour not your peers?

If you have no peers, whose recognition you appreciate, at work. Then there is something wrong with the work environment and that problem is probablh management.

Sorry, but that's a bit childish.

My co-workers are not my social group except for the time I put in at work. That's the beginning and the end of my relationship with them and it's like that for most people who have families of their own. Our relationships are as organic as they can be in a work environment, we don't bullshit each other, and while a toxic relationship with a co-worker might drive someone away, no amount of hand-holding and friendship-having is going to stop someone for leaving for a pay increase. At some point, all business relationships end and all you're left with is what you managed to earn with your time and effort.

Recognition because I wrote something useful on HN or Reddit? Very gratifying. Recognition because HR decided to give out 30% more gold stars this quarter? Nah, not so much.

Peer recognition is more effective than bonuses for running a company. The problem companies have with knowledge workers is how to organise them. That requires a certain culture and social environment, and I assume the great cultures have clear internal lines of communication to work out which peers are the exemplars of the sort of work that happens. And workers like working for successful companies.

But that is all secondary to what gets employees in the door each day. The technical term for the thing that does that is "compensation".

Not a single source apart from the author's opinion, and I'm less than convinced by the argument. Recognition is necessary to a minimum degree, nno-one wants to work without ever a node or a thank you. If recognition matters more to someone in return to exceptional performance than financial incentive, I would go ahead and say that that person has ego issues. Plus too much recognition ends up being un sincere and in fact become counter productive.

Money makes a difference. Money is what the business is about, and what I give you my time for. Not pitty, not trying to compensate for parental approval issues, not strokings to my ego. Money that I can then exchange for goods and services.

> For the majority of us out there, having a lot of zeros in your bank account balance brings little satisfaction if no one else knows it.

A nice vacation in Mexico with my family brings me a lot of satisfaction, and not because I tell my coworkers about it.

(I won't quote any sources because we're talking opinions)

From reading the article, I think the author of the post has ego issues: "we are actually seeking satisfaction from the looks of envy and admiration that we draw from others"

Admiration maybe from someone close to me, but envy?

I do not want to create any envy in other people's mind:

- either I like/love someone, and I don't want they feel bad

- or I am indifferent, and I don't really care

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/we-will-do-anything-to-g... - from the other day

>Peer recognition works better than bonuses

No it does not. It's a scam exposed to freshly graduated so they could 'feel' included and respected. Outside that single room it doesn't mean too much, so people fixate to their companies full junky style in the quest for the instant gratification dopamine making them cheap labor.

Mike Monteiro would like four words: https://youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U

Peer recognition is great for the things I do in my own time, but when I'm trading my time for money on a job, I expect to be paid with money, not kudos.

Holy shit. I haven't read anything so out of touch with reality in a long while.

From his LinkedIn:

> Bilingual business leader and entrepreneur who has made two exits.

He's a Singapore-based, business-oriented type. Nothing wrong with that, but if he's this tone deaf about what really retains and motivates high-performers, then I've got to wonder what other business and leadership aspects he's not in touch with.

Here's the real test of how valuable that peer recognition is: how much does it affect the reviews and compensation adjustment process at the majority of companies that made a big deal out of the peer recognition system? What's that, a rounding error amount or none at all? And show me the sales organization that runs on peer recognition in lieu of commission adjustments in any proportion. I thought so...

Ever since I learned to sell my own services, these kinds of proposals make me internally laugh and politely decline. That kind of BS detector has saved me a ton of hassle and time over the decades. The sales people I learned the craft from wouldn't be nearly as nice reacting to such a proposal, but I've learned not to burn bridges.

Monteiro channeling Goodfellas to Lance Ng: FYPM.

Fake Points for me and FU money for you? That's a crap deal any way you cut it, and if it smells too much for you to make it fly in sales, then it doesn't deserve the light of day anywhere else.

Sure, it works once or maybe even a few times. But peer recognition plus underwhelming monetary rewards will quickly make a person feel underpaid and unappreciated. So then they start polishing up their resume, which they need to do anyway, to put in all those awards they’ve been getting…

The point of compensation isn't motivation, it's retention. People seem to misunderstand that.

Some companies have optional on-call and attach danger-money to it, so that’s an example of comp being used to motivate, not retain.

Surely it’s motivation if the comp is offered in exchange for the completion of some defined future work or attaining a goal? E.g. “I’ll grant you a $20k bonus if you get this project done by Monday”-kinda thing… though arguably this specific case is an example of bad management…

In the on call case, it's still about retention. They need to provide extra money for extra work, otherwise people will just go somewhere else where they get more money for more work.

Your specific example is indeed bad management, as you say. As is almost every other example of the same shape. "You will get X if you do Y" works when X is very generous, which is an expensive way to incentivise Y.

Another problem is that you have to be very consistent and always offer X for Y in the future, or people's motivation for Y will drop to lower than it was before you offered X for it.

There's been plenty of research on this so there's no need to guess. A good start is Pink's book Drive.

I find it all too easy for my peers to know my value while my managers are less clear. Your peers only have so much influence over raises and promotions and so over time you can end up in a bad spot.

Title is clickbaity, the article is more like "peer recognition and money are better than money alone"

To that, I agree - bonuses are an abstract measure of the value you provide, coupling it with specific praise from your peers enhances your validation.

Bonuses are the scoreboard.

Praise from your peers are the cheers from the stands.

Corporations love to use these kind of manipulations to pay workers as little as possible. Peer recognition is one of those tools along with reminders like "you are best of the best" or "you are vital part of the team and we couldn't do without your contributions". Meanwhile company made another billion off of your work and you'll call yourself lucky if you get a 10k off that billion. They are thieves.

I didn't like the article that much but I've actually see this first hands and it was the most mind-blowing experience. At this company people give each others tokens in a company wide standup to recognize the work they did tied to the values of the company (and this a very important aspect) the highest of tokens will actually translate into actual cash when getting bonuses (and I'm sure the other tokens would get you a better bonus as well) ... But the implications of it all was that people really loved working there, most people cared about the product and each other. I'm sure I'm not doing a good job telling the story but it does work in sense it complements well the financial reward it does not replace it.

This explanation only works when the bonuses are just as bad as this article.

Nah, bonus is better.

I very much enjoy when one of my colleagues gets a win and I’ll be their biggest cheerleader. Hey check out what Dave did man this is super cool. Hey did you see what Sally did it’s awesome we’re gonna do a roadshow on this one. But the reason for that is to help them boost their accomplishments list so come review time it’s easier for their bosses to justify bonuses.

They aren’t mutually exclusive. I’ve worked at a large company that allowed peers to give small, cash bonuses to other engineers.

What possible justification is there for other employees at a company to compensate their co-workers, rather than the company itself (and hence: its shareholders)?

I’m not sure I follow. We had great salaries with both generous cash and rsu bonuses as well. This was an extra benefit that allowed you to recognize peers with cash bonuses as well.

Were employee-initiated bonuses paid out of an employer fund then?

That is effectively removing the gatekeeping role of a manager (often an unjustified bar to reward) from bonus decisions.

It ... might lead to other issues, though on balance would probably be an improvement.

My question would be what percentage of people does this type of motivation apply to? Most people don't edit Wikipedia or write for Quora. And on Quora, plenty that do have ulterior motives like selling a product or quietly embedding referral links or building a "personal brand."

Yeah, because what enterprise needs is the coveted "Employee of the Month" status pioneered by the fast food industry

My peers don't have time to "recognize". We're too busy getting stuff done.

Pay is actually the most honest recognition and motivator.

I'd say continuous pay. If it's your job and you're good enough to keep it, your continuous pay check is just the agreed upon exchange for doing said work. If you're not good enough, then that pay stops (or you're promoted to management). If you do something above and beyond expected for job, then bonuses are what is used to reward. Sure, some peer recognition or other non-monetary award might be appropriate for certain things, but if it is something that allows new income to company, saves company significant time/money, etc, then cash is king!

I'm actually ok with discrete pay.

I get that it's culturally difficult to lower salaries so companies don't feel comfortable paying very large salaries as they'll never be able to reduce them in lean years.

Bonuses/RSUs/etc seem like perfectly reasonable ways to pay people what they deserve without paying unsustainable high salaries that are very difficult to ever decrease if times get tough or if high performance is no longer achieved.

What incentivizes peers to recognize?

Who are these people trying to fool? I haven't rolled my eyes that far to the back of my head since I was 14. Is someone trying to get some recognition by their peers at their job with a ridiculous blog?

"Fuck you, pay me." -Mike Monteiro (among others)

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