“We are set on a path that looks disastrous”: Alabama hospitals near collapse | Hacker News Reader

“We are set on a path that looks disastrous”: Alabama hospitals near collapse

arstechnica.com

27 pointsgixo28 comments

One part strikes me as odd, as it come across as a new problem, while for me it seems the core problem since the epidemic started: “Hospitals have already been transferring patients to different hospitals, diverting new patients, and sending patients out of state to Georgia. And many hospitals are delaying surgeries, like knee and hip replacements and even cancer-related surgeries.“

In my country (the Netherlands) that unfortunately has been the norm since covid struck. The backlog in surgeries (all said the be of the non urgent category, meanwhile there are less cancer diagnosis than ever before...) is enormous by now, estimates are it'll take till the end of 2022 catch up, of course, that's assuming the backlog won't increase while medical personnel gets exhausted and new covid patients need ICU care as well. Since covid started it feels this effect has been underestimated by the public and is too uncomfortable for the government to discus too much

Given that rationing care is inevitable, it's time to start prioritizing vaccinated individuals, those unable to get vaccinated, and non-COVID patients when doing triage and allocating ICU beds.

If individuals refuse to get vaccinated, they are increasing the chances that if I get into a car accident I don't get care.

This is literally the definition of a negative externality, and it's very easy to internalize this externality: triage prioritization.

My intent is not to punish these individuals or to make this a moral issue / blame them. It is simply to recognize the cost their choices have on others and to make them bear the cost of their actions we opposed to it being thrust on others.

You have a valid point but were down voted because people here expect to read a socially acceptable comment.

I agree, as a society we need to grow up a bit and be more responsible towards each other.

The poor decisions people make in every other portion of their lives in overlooked for social services. Why start here?

Because the intent behind refusing to treat anti-vaxxers isn’t meant to be punitive, it’s meant to prevent the collapse of the healthcare system.

Completely correct. An adult should assume the responsibility of their own actions.

Nobody wants anyone to die here, but if something is preventable and you don't make the effort, then don't expect the rest of society to bend over backwards.

And if you were driving even 1 mph over the speed limit when you got into that car accident then the hospital should kick you out of the ICU, right? After all it's your own fault for engaging in risky behavior. Then next we can kick out any HIV/AIDS and hepatitis C patients who were infected through unprotected sex or sharing needles. Etc.

Due to the EMTALA hospitals with emergency rooms are legally required to treat all patients at least until they are stabilized. So hospitals that discriminate based on vaccination status would be exposing themselves to significant liability. Adding an exception would require an act of Congress.

Also consider that there is no 100% reliable way to verify vaccination status. Most states have an immunization registry but those have time delays and data quality problems. And people do still move around between states and countries.

But I do encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can.

He said prioritize not deny care. This is something hospitals and medical workers have always done.

As someone who doesn't want to take the vaccine: I would prefer this. Let us make the decision and deal with the consequences.

Your right not to get vaccinated stops at my right not to get infected by idiots^Wpeople like you. Get off your high horse and get vaxxed now. If you can't stay away from people

I almost never go outside. Also, the vaccines are pretty ineffective against the new variants anyway.

I followed all the rules for a year and it looks like 1 it really didn't help much and 2 the virus isn't nearly as deadly as people thought. This isn't fucking polio, it's a bad cold.

I fully support vaccination, but you have no legal right to be protected from infection. It appears nowhere in the US Constitution. And while the vaccines are very effective at preventing death they are only marginally effective at preventing contagion.

The reality is that SARS-CoV-2 is now endemic in the worldwide human population. So you're almost certainly going to get infected eventually regardless of what others do.

Have you looked at rates of vaccination, infection, hospitalization and death, and vaccine hesitancy by race or ethnic background? If not, do you stand by this comment after you have looked at some of that data?

UK here.

We have a good coverage of vaccinations, most of the vulnerable are doubly vaccinated. However we are going to have a bad winter.

We have just under three times the number of ICU beds as Alabama (3.9 per 100k[1] vs the UK's 7.5 per 100k[2]) but we have a a decent number of those bed already occupied by covid patients.

The vaccine isn't a magic thing that'll stop hospitals filling up. Yes, it reduces the fatality by 1/4 and length of stay of the average patient. but it won't help if all your population gets ill at the same time.

The UK will almost certainly have a "fourth" wave in winter. We will have to cancel emergency care.

[1]https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/05/18/icu-be... [2]https://annalsofintensivecare.springeropen.com/articles/10.1...

note, these numbers are inaccurate as when there is a crisis like this the number of beds increases.

Oh my god the unhinged blind frothing rage in those comments is scary, and many upvoted. I hardly go on that site I didn't realize it is a haven for hateful extremists.

Yep. I have loved Ars for years. But its community has taken a dark turn.

I can't blame them. They are raging against irresponsible republican government (and gullible people).

These are the sort of people have profiles with "be kind" on them, and constantly congratulate themselves for being tolerant and inclusive (unlike the angry fearful intolerant divisive subhuman others).

Kindness and tolerance has its limits.

So it would seem.

I am speaking more generally than this specific article or topic.

I only looked at the 20 or so comments at the top and I did not find what you describe. The reply by DaveSimmons is a low point but it's not even close to unhinged blind frothing rage.

> Send the national guard door to door with medics to force vaccinations on the antivax cretins in the hot zones.

> Oh wait, the Republican governors are busy outlawing mask mandates.

> Keep piling up the bodies on the altar of Trump then I guess. More blood for the blood god!

Yeesh.

One thing people forget is that some of these hospitals are firing workers for not getting vaccinated which means fewer ICU beds.

Blimey you're not wrong. I reckon you can probably judge the quality of a comment section by the number and strength of the adjectives in it: a reasonable comments section would call somebody foolish, an unreasonable one would say that they're a disgusting extremist making unfathomably selfish and reckless choices.

A bit ironic one of them was talking about "blood for the blood god" when that whole comment section is basically an angry hymn to Khorne!

Ars is barely better than Reddit.

Yea, it is a rather mean culture. Fascinating to watch, but scary as well.

Looks like for the 65+ crowd in Alabama, 87.6% have at least one dose of the covid vaccine, and 74.4% are fully vaccinated.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-trac...

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