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Comment by wodenokoto | Hacker News Reader

If all mRNA have side effects like the current crop of COVID vaccines I’m honestly not sure they are worth it as a seasonal flu shot.

I’m not talking about the scare mongering of long term effects. Just the immediate.

The day after my second moderna shot was worse than any flu I can remember and many of my friends in their 20s and 30s had to take a day off after their shot. I know several people in their 60s who had to take several days to a week in bed from vaccine side effects.

That’s fine for ending a pandemic or curing HIV, but for seasonal flu?

In terms of lost labor days, my anec-data points to this vaccine seeming worse than a seasonal flu.

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I don't know. The last time I had a seasonal flu, I was sick for a week. I cried because I needed to do laundry and simply didn't have the energy and I ate poorly - I lived alone at the time. All of my energy went to surviving work.

Compared to having a sore arm for a couple of days? Or even getting sick for a day or two - at a time I can choose - to just not deal with getting sick later on? Sure. And I'm awfully sure that the flu kills more than the vaccine for it. So many complications for so many people.

And to be fair: The folks you knew in their 60's had an unusual reaction. Older people with their aging immune systems are actually more likely to get little to know side effects to vaccines - younger folks tend to get more. The same goes for folks that are genetically female: You tend to get more side effects (they think this is because so many immune genes are on sex chromosomes, and women have more genes here.).

And to be fair: Taking a day off of work when you are sick isn't such a big deal if you live somewhere with labor protection laws that allow you sick days. It is a little less of a big deal if you live in the US and get paid sick time, but a lot of folks just don't have this so it makes being sick after a vaccine a bigger deal that it should be.

Like you said, it's anec-data. Among my friends, two were very sleepy the following day and otherwise fine. I had a sore arm for two days, and no other effects. My parents didn't have any noticeable effects.

But there is significant real data that the side effects from Moderna were significantly worse (but, again, not severe, and time-limited) than a flu shot.

I know this is just another anecdote, but I get a flu shot every year and have never experienced anything more than a sore arm. With 2nd Moderna dose I had a fever of 103 and was completely out of commission for 36 hours.

I think they just took the highest dose that had acceptable side effects because they had no time to figure out the perfect dose.

This is also my thinking, and doesn't seem too implausible given that the dosage is so much higher than Pfizer (100mcg vs 30mcg). My relatives who got Moderna had similar reports to some of the posters above. I got Pfizer and barely noticed.

>But there is significant real data that the side effects from Moderna were significantly worse (but, again, not severe, and time-limited) than a flu shot.

It's all relative. The side effects from a flu shot are mild compared to the flu. Ditto for the Moderna vaccine.

The worst case of flu I had lasted a month. It's usually several days of chills, aches, and coughing.

With the second phizer shot, I mild symptoms for a day.

It's possible you never had a flu. It's pretty rough

I've had Moderna and the flu, and they were about equally bad ("I can move, but only because I'll wet the bed otherwise, please God let me sleep so it stops feeling like my bones are dissolving") but Moderna lasted only a day whereas the flu lasted several. I think you'll struggle to argue convincingly that Moderna doesn't commonly have awful side effects :P

You also didn't pass the Moderna side-effects to anyone else, unlike with the flu.

The question is simple, does the benefit of using said vaccine or medication outweigh the risk of not using it. In the case of covid being sick for a couple of days and a guarantee of preventing future death is better than a resulting death had the user not taken it.

I would say a couple of days of flu is vastly better than some of the other side effects I've seen with other medications. Take for instance:

- Suicidal thoughts - Abnormal heart rhythms - Internal bleeding - Cancer

At the end of the day, we rely on medical professionals to help us with these decisions and weigh the treatment of said ailments against the side effects we may incur if we do or don't take treatment. For what it's worth I've seen the opposite, most folks took the day off just in case there was a side effect, but ultimately everyone was fine. I know I scheduled my vaccine shots for a Thursday so I could have a 3 day weekend assuming I wasn't feeling ill, and I felt fine so I enjoyed my 3 day weekend.

do all mRNA vaccines have to be multi-dose?

I'm sure a second shot of the traditional flu vaccine wouldn't feel great.

This is fair since existing flu vaccines are seems to fine and flu medication is available, but good to have mRNA option.

It may be that the vaccine side effect severity is proportional to the severity of the disease it prevents.

Also, these vaccines were very rapidly developed so perhaps the next generation of them will be a bit easier on the body.

It is more likely the opposite - a strong immune system causes a strong vaccine reaction.

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