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Comment by modeless | Hacker News Reader

I'll believe it when I see it. I heard signatures were going away years ago and yet I keep getting asked for signatures.

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There are some reasons it still exists, however, it is no longer required and merchants/POS systems ought to start phasing it out.

In the US, the way we do tip on receipt is a lot more natural if you're asking for a signature. Without a signature, you're just handing someone a tip option, which is awkward with our current way of doing things.

Some merchants opt to keep signature enabled because it gives them a fuzzy feeling and it's a point of closure to a transaction.

When I was over there I constantly got confused around the tipping system and how some bars keep a tab open for you (by take your card and putting it in a little book at the back and then you pay/tip at the end)

I didn't trust that so I ended up just signing the receipt and adding the tip to the bottom and keeping my card in my wallet. Needless to say I think the bar staff got a lot of tips that night!

>Needless to say I think the bar staff got a lot of tips that night!

You generally tip based on percentage or the number of drinks, so it shouldn't matter too much unless you're doing it by percentage and rounding up the nearest dollar.

For those abroad, even the notion of tipping can be absurd. Using that notion as a point of support for a payment system the levies fraud responsibilities onto the merchant and is very easy to circumvent, and the reason most other places moved to chip+pin, or contactless a long time ago is even more amusing.

I understand what you're saying, and how its locally relevant, but from the outside looking in the US is a long way behind on keeping up with the tech in this space.

Lot's of payment terminals in the UK allow the customer to input the service charge themselves before they enter their PIN. Otherwise the waiter/waitress typically asks you how much you want to pay before typing in the amount. If you're splitting the bill then they need to do that anyway.

>>Otherwise the waiter/waitress typically asks you how much you want to pay before typing in the amount.

That is never going to work in the US. Very few people would be comfortable with that.

Here in Canada, portable POS terminals usually have a screen before "TAP/INSERT CARD" that says "Add tip?" and offers vendor-set default options, usually either 10%/12%/15% or 12%/15%/20%. The fourth option is always "custom", which allows people to enter 0 if they wish. (There are also payment flows that have an initial "Yes/No" on the "Add Tip?" question, in cases where a tip may or may not make sense, e.g. a bakery/deli that offers both high-touch dine-in and extremely-low-touch "we just take it from the fridge and give it to you" take-out service.)

Since Canada and the US have basically the same tipping culture, these POS systems seem to be already tailored for adoption in the US market (or at least, being cloned by US POS mfgrs.) Not sure why they haven't been.

> In the US, the way we do tip on receipt is a lot more natural if you're asking for a signature. Without a signature, you're just handing someone a tip option, which is awkward with our current way of doing things.

Most places I go now have a receipt option step that serves as a justification for the tip screen, rather than the signature. Tapping “No Receipt” for a $5 beer purchase is only a little faster and less ridiculous than signing for it.

> In the US, the way we do tip on receipt is a lot more natural

American in Hungary. Here tipping isn't expected like it is in the US. But when you pay, they bring the terminal to your table with the check, then you tell them that you want to add a tip and how much, and they type the total into the terminal before you tap your phone or card. Perfectly natural.

You omitted a very important part of their comment:

> if you're asking for a signature.

Haven't had to sign anything for 15+ years, newer cards don't even have the space for signatures (Europe/MasterCard).

I do have to do the mag-swipe maybe once a year, if the chip reader is acting up (still no signature, it asks for the PIN).

I just got a new credit card recently. There definitely still is the space for signatures in the US. I actually once had a store turn me away because I didn't sign it.

Got a new Mastercard in Europe this year, still with signature space. Same for Visa from two banks.

Couldn't find the exact card, but here's an example from my neighbors if anyone's interested. I guess it's not a thing everywhere yet.

https://www.swedbank.lt/img/private/d2d/cards/3dSecure/816x2...

_edit_

They dropped the requirement in 2018

https://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2018/signing-off-maste...

Nice video!

Got a new mastercard (debit) without signature field and a mastercard (credit) with embossed numbers and signature field. It makes sense with the debit/credit split.

My Apple Card doesn't have a space for a signature but it also doesn't have a PIN. Does have a chip though, a combination I find routinely frustrating. Just let me use a PIN if the card has a chip!

I think some of it is just them not marketing features. I was unaware that my card would do the NFC/no-pin-needed thing until I paid attention to someone in front of me in line one day.

Signature requirement has gone away in the US (and Mastercard was also the first to do that was well).

Just so many merchants are accomplished to asking for it (or haven't updated their terminals to code for not asking for it) - which is why you still encounter it.

Signatures are for you, not the card company. This is why I sign with a nonce.

No, they're for the merchant. They don't benefit me at all. But merchants were supposed to stop requiring them by now.

They're supposed to help you locate fraudulent transactions after your card is stolen. I guess that benefits the merchant because it makes you less likely to mark legitimate transactions as fraudulent.

In a world where that was actually the goal, you'd presumably be able to see a little image of the signature used, beside each card-provided charge in on your credit card in your online banking portal.

No, you can't see the signatures, so they don't help you locate fraudulent transactions. What they do is provide a defense for the merchant against you. If you try to say you didn't authorize the charge, then the merchant can produce the signature as proof that you did. The signature is never evidence that you weren't there. Even if it is someone else's name, that doesn't prove anything, so it never benefits you.

What’s his name?

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