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Comment by brutus1213 | Hacker News Reader

I was watching the Stuff Made Here Youtube channel (amazing channel btw) and was getting tempted by Shane's (guy running said channel) shop tour ([1]). Surely I could get tool X and operate it safely? But yeah .. I'd likely get myself maimed or worse. YouTube makes this sort of stuff seem so accessible, this is a reminder of the obvious .. power tools and moving parts can kill. As software people, we sometimes don't realize this. Stay safe y'all!

I'm also curious how one builds up strong manufacturing skills safely? I thought high school shop class no longer exists. Makerspaces sometimes have kind souls willing to help but I have seen people do dangerous things happen.

[1] just to be clear, the channel's author does talk about the importance of safety and doesn't promote recklessness. It is just me getting tempted to replicate.

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> I thought high school shop class no longer exists.

anecdata:

I graduated high school in 2015 and had woodshop, auto shop, and metal shop classes. Also welding, and, for what it is worth, cosmetology. This was at a public school in Houston. We had wood and metal shop in middle school, as well.

These classes are still offered at my school according to my relative who still works there.

Very common in rural areas too - I wonder if it's mainly being able to find someone to teach it.

From what I understand, I am amazed we have anyone willing to teach in New York (the city) public schools. You need a master's degree and more than three (not sure) certifications. It is insane. Yes, I agree we should have some standards but too many restrictions and I am afraid only a certain kind of personality can survive as a teacher in the city.

This has been the requirement for teachers in Germany since WW II. 5 years of university plus 1 year following an experienced teacher with a practical exam at the end.

Teachers are generally well paid, though.

You may find if you carefully checked that a number of people who you would think are "teachers" are technically some other classification because they don't have the required paperwork.

Sometimes the requirements are and/or, and sometimes they let you slide if you're "working on the masters".

Yeah, my middle school wood shop teacher was a “coach” and we called him coach. Don’t think he coached any school sports though.

> Yes, I agree we should have some standards but too many restrictions and I am afraid only a certain kind of personality can survive as a teacher in the city.

The biggest restriction is lack of decent pay relative to the quality of life and liabilities of the job.

> I'm also curious how one builds up strong manufacturing skills safely?

Doing a trade apprenticeship is the common way to do it, but not an option for people looking to get in as a hobby. But even as a hobbyist, an "apprenticeship" is helpful if you can make friends who already have the experience you're after and are willing to hang out and build things with you.

You can learn a lot on your own, but you will miss some important safety and productivity tips that just aren't obvious except through experience.

And slightly off topic, but power tools are honestly not what frighten me - it's dust and chemical exposure that keeps me awake at night.

You have to learn to respect your tools. In a society with guard rails everywhere and children who grow up in bubbles, it is a bit more difficult. But you do and then it becomes normal to understand that you are standing next to something that can kill you in seconds and your awareness and thoughtfulness change dramatically.

I've met enough old blokes missing fingers from workplace accidents to know that's not the case.

Yep ... most commonly accidents with table saws ... easily preventable by just not putting your fingers in the way of the blade.

Just keep fingers away from moving things in general.

There's a lot of edge cases where you can get away with it but it's a bad habit to get into.

That said, the people who complain that literally every bit of content with a power tool doesn't start with the introductory lecture about safety need to go stick their hand in a wood chipper. That's like asking for every math class to start by reiterating basic arithmetic. It's an unnecessary drag on everyone for nothing. The people who need to be told to wear safety glasses aren't watching a youtube video on how to build a race car cage, they're not at that level, and the people who are watching it don't need to be told.

I've been involved in two open workspaces / hackerspaces ... one had a very open "use at your own risk" attitude towards powertools and you just signed a waiver that they are not responsible, the other had a "you are not allowed to use our powertools" policy for insurance reasons.

Not surprisingly the second workshop was not used at all, which is somewhat of an antithesis to being an open workshop in the first place ...

> I'm also curious how one builds up strong manufacturing skills safely?

While getting mentored at jobs that takes OSHA violations seriously? Most youtube maker channels are full of comments complaining about how lacking the hosts are in their safety.

I wouldn't put much stock in those comments. Every cat video also contains comments that the cat is either about to die or the owner is abusing the cat.

Safety is pretty easy, just envision what would happen if you fucked up. Then take precautions so that when you do, you won't lose a limb or an eye.

> I'm also curious how one builds up strong manufacturing skills safely?

A lot of technical colleges/polytechnics offer short courses for skills like welding or cabinetmaking, often during the evening.

>Safety is pretty easy, just envision what would happen if you fucked up

I do see what you mean, but you can still get hurt even if you do everything "right". Angle grinders, for example, can shatter even if you don't break any safety rules. Hopefully your safety equipment works, but really hard shards flying around at 10,000 rpm are unpredictable.

Or kickback from a table saw. Or when I almost took my hand off when a chopsaw hit a knot in a 4x4 with such force that it deformed the metal and bounced my hand toward the blade.

Seems like the first safety rule for woodworking should be: don’t use a table saw.

Although the only carpenter I’ve worked with that had a missing digit had ground his thumb off with a belt sander. He didn’t speak English, and mimed the accident to me with our belt sander. I felt a bit sick.

That incident with the chopsaw shook me sufficiently enough that I returned the saw and haven't used a tool with a powered, spinning blade since. If I get another power tool it will be a sawstop.

> Safety is pretty easy, just envision what would happen if you fucked up.

If you make something fool-proof, the universe will invent a better fool.

Imagining every possible failure mode is extremely difficult, if not impossible. Some modes aren't obvious until you begin using the device. Some modes aren't obvious until they happen.

Don't be dissuaded. Just take that cautious attitude, and learn everything you can. But don't let it scare you off.

I second the channel recommendation, it is a perfect watch for people interested in hands on building.

It's kind of a problem when people don't like to RTFM which contains all the warnings necessary.

Which reminds me I used to play with my father’s power tools on my own when I was 8-10 years old. Good times.

In the modern era TFM includes so many warnings and disclaimers as to be nonsensical.

When nothing had warnings unless it needed it you took the warnings seriously. When a screwdriver comes with a warning and internet commenters get whipped into a frenzy because some youtuber didn't preface an advanced topic with an introductory safety lecture you don't know what to take seriously and you are effectively on your own. It's the same old information overload problem we've seen in other areas.

This is oh so true. Any time I buy a gadget I make sure to read the warning labels. This is only because of its comedic value. I try to imagine every mishap and threatened lawsuit that caused the labels to be justified. Hilarious, and as you say, quite tragic. It's just useless letter clutter at this point.

I bet if you trained some AI on all the manuals and BOMs you could auto-generate some of them just using the BOM. Plug -> Don't use in bathtub. Bearing -> keep spinny bits away from person, and so on.

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