The Overview Effect | Hacker News Reader

The Overview Effect

en.wikipedia.org

44 pointsacdanger27 comments

I read an article somewhere about how it's possible the idea of the "overview effect" might actually just be putting a positive spin on the earlier "breakaway effect" or "break-off phenomenon". I thought it was this [0] article by Gwern, but on rereading, while it discusses both effects, it doesn't seem to actually make that claim. Hm. Wonder what I was thinking of.

[0] https://www.gwern.net/Scanners

I felt something akin to the overview effect when I used psychedelics.

It was the realization that my internal conflicts, like the conflicts of the world, were arbitrary and that reality offers so much more.

Hard to explain. But perhaps this could also help those who can't travel to space.

Psychedelics are a space to explore themselves.

> the need to create a planetary society with the united will to protect this "pale blue dot" becomes both obvious and imperative

Change of perspective doesn't change objective reality of human nature as the latter is immutable and outside control of observer, while the prior is very mutable and anyone can warp it as much as tech allows them.

So human nature is immutable? What's so special about human nature that makes it a constant while almost everything else is so clearly mutable. Heck we humans even observe changes on geological time scales...

It simply is immutable. That is how things are. I don't need to convince you of objective reality; you're free to try and unite everyone in peace and harmony to protect that pale blue dot.

And by saying "not mutable" i don't mean that is doesn't change. Of course everything changes, constantly moves, is in motion. It's just that you can't do jack shit about it or determine how it will change. You can't mutate the process as this process is beyond you.

Source?

Reality itself. My deepest apologies if that goes against your fantasies, but maybe if you shout loud enough at the Moon, reality will bent to your wishful thinking and everyone will humbly live happily ever after caring for the pale blue dot.

Turns out 90% of "human nature" is socialisation which subject to change at all times.

Call me again when you manage to socialize the planet in the way that you want to protect pale blue dot. Don't waste my time before that.

> And by saying "not mutable" i don't mean that is doesn't change.

This may be semantics, but saying it's "not mutable" literally means it doesn't change.

I think it's everyone's birth-right to see Earth in its entirety. Not in some picture or video, but to be in space and see it floating like some fragile embryo in the womb.

That's why I'm not overly cynical about the space billionaires who want to democratize trips to space and in the words of Bezos, 'build a road to space'.

Not seeing the very planet you were born on, from a bigger perspective is like being a caretaker of a prison (or garden!) never having seen the entire prison (or garden!) from the outside.

I like to think of it as more of a garden than a prison.

> Not seeing the very planet you were born on, from a bigger perspective is like being a caretaker of a prison never having seen the entire prison from outside.

Let's flip that around. Anyone born in space should never be taken to the prison that is Earth! See how odd that sounds?

Your spaceship is the prison, not Earth.

I bet our descendants don't agree with you.

"Why would anyone want to live dirtside?"

"Why, I'm already out of that gravity well, halfway to anywhere."

"They don't even control the weather down there; anything can happen. People die from the weather there."

And the bugs. Horrible. They're everywhere. All kinds of weird ones, too. Why would anyone live like that. So much better living here where we are civilized. I can take off to Mars Station, or Ceres, or Galileo Main. Or anywhere, really."

that's a nice idea.

If you're serious about advocating such a birthright, I'd suggest you start by enabling and encouraging everyone on Earth to travel to outside their country even once. It's surprising how many people haven't, even in the US[0] and Europe [1].

[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/lealane/2019/05/02/percentage-o...

[1] https://www.europeandatajournalism.eu/eng/News/Data-news/190...

It's remarkable to see such similar numbers (40% vs 37%). I had imagined there'd be a much greater difference. In Germany only 18% of those asked had never left the country. That includes young people of course who will probably travel to other countries in the future.

> In Germany only 18% of those asked had never left the country.

I think comparing "left the country" between US and Europe doesn't make much sense. While the cultural differences between countries are obviously bigger, distance-wise, "never left the country" in Europe is more akin to "never left the state" in the US.

Even if you're on the ISS, you're still in a very low orbit. Can you even get all of earth (the side that is facing you) into your field of view at once on ISS? If not, how far would you have to go to manage that?

You would only see one hemisphere from infinity.

The question was how far you have to be away from the surface to get the entire planet into your field of view (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_of_view)

Cant wait to see if it makes bezos less of an asshole.

Perhaps the overview effect can be achieved with a good virtual reality experience. SpaceVR are working on it.

Already mentioned in the brief article:

> In 2018, the Spacebuzz project was created so "children around the world can also get to experience the Overview Effect."[18] It was announced in a press release on December 20 by astronaut André Kuipers on the European Space Agency's (ESA) website.[19] Spacebuzz aims to give children an overview effect like experience using virtual reality (VR) in order to have the same insight astronauts have when seeing planet Earth from space. Spacebuzz is a project started by the Overview Effect Foundation backed by ESA and the Netherlands Space Office.[18]

> In late 2019 it was reported that researchers at the University of Missouri aimed to reproduce the experience, with an isolation tank, half a tonne of Epsom salts, and a waterproof VR headset.[20]

> From out there on the Moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch.’

-- Edgar Mitchell

"And you saw yourself," said Gargravarr, "in relation to it all?"

"Oh, yeah yeah."

"But...what did you experience?"

Zaphod shrugged smugly.

"It just told me what I knew all the time. I'm a really terrific and great guy. Didn't I tell you, baby, I'm Zaphod Beeblebrox!"

-- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

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