The Light Phone: Minimal Smartphone
thelightphone.com
thelightphone.com
- just make it comfortable using with one hand (5 inch or less)
- don't put 100W 32 core processor and 16 gigs of RAM
- place a decent camera without 5 eyes staring from the back panel (I get anxiety from looking at the back of that Samsung Galaxy that has these)
- burn the fucking monobrows or cutouts for a cam on a front panel, place everything you need (cam, front speaker, sensors etc) above the goddamn screen
- if you provide a fingerprint scanner, for fucks sake, don't make me lift up this 200g brick so I can grope the scanner on the back
- 3.5mm audio jack? hello? I don't wanna bother about having my earcocks charged
I'm looking for a decent substitute to my 4.5 yo Zuk Z2 and I shit you not, there is no single phone that satisfies everything I described. The closest is Xperia 5 II with 6.1 inch screen, but at least it has audio jack and normal looking front panel...
I pretty much have the same requirements you do, aside from the audio jack, because I actually enjoy not having to deal with the wires. I don't use the headphones for long periods at a time, so battery life isn't an issue. Bonus points for audio quality being good when I use them on my shitty HP laptop.
But I do enjoy wireless headphones with PC at home, it's quite handy to be able to talk at the daily meeting while making a coffee or watering the plants :)
I currently own an iPhone 7, but before that I had multiple Galaxy Ss, each with a custom mod. The iPhone is the first one I don't get the itch to modify. It just gets out of my way. The Samsung android install would always end up getting on my nerves. That's why I'm actively avoiding Samsung phones now, and I'm looking at models with Android One or that can easily support some aftermarket ROM. Trouble is, my hardware requirements (good camera + waterproof) pretty much exclude those phones...
I also consider my phone to be a pretty dumb tool, but I also occasionally browse web and do banking with it, so I'd love to use iphone if Jailbreak wasn't so fragile. Instead, I have to set the phone aside myself from the scratch :)
iTunes is dead and its "Music" replacement doesn't need to be used for the phone anymore anyway.
App Store is the only main constraint.
My mini is so transparent to me, I often have to check if it's still in my pocket, and I absolutely love that. It has the same computing and photography capabilities as the larger iPhone, so you don't miss out on any of those benefits either.
I've been waiting for this size device for years, and it's sad to hear they apparently don't sell well. It's the best iPhone I've ever owned.
Dedicated fingerprint scanners on the front are gone, and won't be coming back. A dedicated fingerprint on the back is the next best thing, as they are fast and super reliable. The alternative, under-display fingerprint scanners are much wonkier. There are some phones with side fingerprint scanners, but they are not so common.
I've avoided big phones as long as possible, but you get used to larger phones pretty quickly. Just get an accessory that helps to use with one hand, e.g. a ring case.
You'll have to compromise on one aspect or another, sooner or later.
The closest phones for your requirements are Sony Xperia 5 III (available Sep/2021), Asus Zenfone 8 and the Pixel 4a.
1. https://mashtips.com/hide-display-notch-and-cutouts-on-pixel...
Notches are irritating people so much devs have to include option to make them less irritating. Phones got so fat and large that it is impossible to not drop them, and case manufacturers descended from the above with ring cases (do you have to get engaged to the smartphone these days?)
Fingerprints on the back make no sense to me precisely because of how I'm using the phone: it rests with screen upwards within my vision range while I'm working, and when I see the LED blip (I also can't wrap my head around that most phones don't have LED anymore and instead light up the whole fucking screen on any notification), I double tap the screen to see if it's important, if it is, I put finger on my super reliable and fast fingerprint on the front, and resolve whatever "emergency" with just one finger. If we talking fingerprint on the back, I have to either always place the phone screen downwards and rely on sound/vibration, or exercise in heavy lifting.
I'm content with fingerprint on the side because it allows to have the same workflow as before, although I'd have to unlock the phone with two fingers at least. I share your distaste to the underscreen fingerprints because I've experienced myself how slow and unreliable they are.
I'm leaning towards Xperia 5 II because some time ago I've bought Z5 mini for mom and she's been using it with much pleasure. 5 III seemingly is locked 4K and I doubt it will result in a respectable SOT
If there are any urgent/important notifications/calls you need to deal with urgently, consider using something like PushBullet to mirror them on your computer.
The Xperia 5 III resolution is 1080x2520 [2]
I must've confused it with other model, the naming on this series is atrocious, thanks for clearing that out!
>It's probably a good habit to put your phone facing down
I'm not really bothered by the smartphone addiction, in fact, my daily usage is 2 hours at most, where half an hour is reading before the sleep and the rest is me using it outdoors
No, I think they've always been optional. I quite like it - Android just puts the usual top bar up a bit higher than before, with the notch in the middle, and then the app just gets a big screen to occupy. Doesn't work so well in landscape mode, but I don't really use that.
The iPhone 12 mini, at 5.4" is already smaller than the iPhone SE at 4.7". Which means it is actually the smallest iPhone in the lineup. And is actually smaller than your Z2.
I dont like the notch, but it isn't much of a concern during usage, especially when iOS has left right swipe down short cut.
I do sort of wish ( or at least used to wish, now I am figuring out how to move off Apple ) Apple made a iPhone SE with what you said, place camera and speaker above the screen and uses Touch ID on the side. i.e a slightly taller iPhone 12 mini with Touch ID instead.
Isn’t it a feature phone with a touch screen?
It's capabilities are:
1. Contact list
2. Phone calls
3. SMS (MMS?)
4. Alarms
5. Music
I had all that on an LG flip phone in the mid-00s. Plus basic web capabilities (which was great, I could see where the buses on my bus route were so I knew if it was worth waiting or if I should just hustle on foot).
My feature phones at least had little time-wasting games built in.
A feature phone with wifi hotspot and WhatsApp support. So this is below the baseline of feature phones circa 2020.
> My feature phones at least had little time-wasting games built in.
TBF, I think one of the points of this is to provide basic communication needs without the distracting parts of smartphones that promote time wasting. But it seems to have cut things too far, to the quick as the saying goes. Feature phones already exist and don't cost $300 and have excellent battery life and international support and are more useful than this without going to the extreme of being as distracting and time wasting as smartphones can be (without discipline).
I'd draw the same line between feature phones running a "smartphone" OS and actual smartphones. If you constrain the OS so that it can't run to its potential, at some point you cease to have a smartphone (even if technically it could be). Just like an iPhone isn't really a general purpose computer. It could be, but in practice it is not, because of the constraints placed on the system via iOS and the App Store.
As far as apps - many feature phones had J2ME. There were plenty of games for that, some quite fancy, but also useful apps - e.g. I remember using Bombus for XMPP chats, and there was Opera Mini for web browsing (it didn't actually try to render everything locally, but instead offloaded layout to Opera servers - the phone then got a vector image of the page it could easily render with scrolling & zoom).
Probably a modern flip phone (KaiOS?) wouldn't be so broken, but I don't think you can even get those in the U.S.
You'd just have to buy the phone from overseas (one of Nokia's models for example). For someone that particularly decided they wanted to use that type of phone, it wouldn't be a huge inconvenience.
A flip phone with a slide out keyboard is really nice to type on, such as this LG one: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51BduiWV+rL._AC_.jpg
I've been using the above phone for around 6 years. It's not the best thing in the world but it does the 5 things in your list and typing isn't bad.
Its biggest weakness is if someone sends you a picture you can't really see it, but if you're only occasionally texting and calling that's not a deal breaker. My friends and family know the best way to reach me is through email (which I access on my workstation).
I assume everyone using the OP phone also has a fully featured phone to go with it so the OP product does not seem very compelling.
I like the punkt approach better. Your phone is a phone / access point when you need Internet. It comes with signal for texting but not much else. I think ideally I’d like a camera as well, since that’s not really a distraction. https://www.punkt.ch/en/products/mp02-4g-mobile-phone/
[1] https://thismatters.blog/2020/03/01/going-light-part-4-first...
[2] https://www.inc.com/wanda-thibodeaux/how-this-dumb-phone-is-...
The price is a factor for me as well (yes, I'm a pennypincher). The 3310 is about half the price of any KaiOS phone.
The Light Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21943649 - Jan 2020 (277 comments)
Light Phone II - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20951777 - Sept 2019 (2 comments)
The High Hopes of the Low-Tech Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20878498 - Sept 2019 (1 comment)
Light Phone 2: A simple 4G phone with e-ink - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17252143 - June 2018 (144 comments)
The Light Phone 2 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16495707 - March 2018 (3 comments)
Light Phone 2 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16493485 - March 2018 (6 comments)
The Light Phone: Leave your smartphone behind - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16356013 - Feb 2018 (3 comments)
This minimalist cell phone is designed to be as basic as possible - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14284972 - May 2017 (1 comment)
The Light Phone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9599142 - May 2015 (8 comments)
The Light Phone Is the Anti-Smartphone - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9569625 - May 2015 (1 comment)
The answer is no to all. I'd take a phone without a web browser or anything else if I could have these three.
Personally I have no use for Whatsapp, so once Spotify and directions are up and running I'll be pretty interested in grabbing one of these to replace my phone.
My main concern is the call quality. When calling is essentially all you're reduced to in terms of connectivity, I would want to be sure those calls go smoothly. I remember hearing bad things about the call quality in the past with like mic issues or something, not sure if that's been resolved by now.
I’ve offered this service of in loco parentis to everyone who tells me they want a simpler phone without the distractions, and no one ever takes me up on it.
Instead of Spotify I went back to MP3s and bandcamp. I sometimes use Apple Store or Youtube to find new songs/recommendations.
For messaging I have a desktop where I can FB message family and friends, so only at set times. Same with other messaging, only at set times.
People can text me, but somehow people forgot about that :)
Reducing dependency on chokehold services is a good thing in my book.
For directions an old fashioned gps navigator works fine or downloaded openstreet map.
They sell an image of a simpler life but taking this step back is harder than you think.
- Signal
- Web browser
- Podcast app
- RSS reader
- PDF/EPUB reader
- WiFi Hotspot (for occasional use)
- Mapping/directions/traffic (only Google app I use)
That's all I use my phone for. It covers everything I need.
My current phone is basically the above with all Google apps disabled, where I can, and the rest not updated because I don't use them.
Think my next phone will be a Google phone with graphene os and no gapps
This was the gap that I think Punkt ( https://www.punkt.ch/en/ ) phones had, where they are for voice and minimal texting, with all the right design ideas, except voice as a thing is diminished becase younger people intuitively get that synchronous communication imposes opportunity costs on their time. I'd hypothesize that most people who prefer voice communications do not desire a quieter minimal experience, as they naturally seek the stimulation of a voice interaction and therefore also find the busyness of smartphones stimulating, but more people who prefer asynchronous text will pay a premium for a quiet minimal experience.
Even if the messenger clients piece were done with optional physically removable storage, because I'm suspecting the initial market for this phone is an odd intersection of creative, upper income, either exec or self employed, who are above being subject to tech - so basically tech people. I could see it becoming a status thing, where nothing quite says FU money like being able to afford patience and manage your own time.
Signal doesn't allow for third party clients. There is a clear risk of being locked out of the network.
But take my elderly mom for example. She won't be caught dead with a smartphone. Too many things to screw up. So she soldiers on with a dedicated wifi hotspot thing, wasting the 4GB/month plan's unlimited free calling and multimedia messaging and using a separate cell/phone jack gateway with its own SIM and its own plan. I've said before, just put the data SIM in a surplus older smartphone, use that as a hotspot instead, and we can at least text when the computer is messed up again. Won't have it. Note, she lives far enough in the countryside that other internet access is not available and she doesn't need more than 4GB per month, not even close, and the 128kbps fallback after you've used up the 4GB would still keep her email working.
A simple phone like this that can still do wifi hotspot might be acceptable. Maybe. She may not be the only person like this.
It’s not usable as a daily phone at all. It was a nice idea but by the time the software is complete there will be much cheaper e-ink tech around.
One factor could be that the 'light usage' mentioned (which really should be explained imo) includes hours of playing music, but still, 1-2 days is not a lot then?
https://shop.m5stack.com/products/m5paper-esp32-development-...
My point is that the price tag on this is way, way too high.
My point is that these features, even on feature phones, are often designed to be used as much as possible, ie addictive. The Light Phone is trying to do the opposite, which is a welcome change imo.
The problem is, there's a long tail of apps users consider tools, and I don't think Lightphone will support them all nor will app developers write them for this tiny market. For example, a user might think it's critical that their pandora music is available, or spotify, or....
One thing I've been considering is moving away from having a phone altogether and just relying on an apple watch. Big enough market that all the essential "tool" apps you'd want exist but the form factor itself prevents distraction (good luck doom scrolling instagram on a watch). The fact that the only data entry mechanism is voice, is actually a feature for me, it forces you to only use it for the essential.
The downside is that I'd need to carry around another device for emergency work stuff. Maybe an iPad because that form factor is limiting as well, you're not gonna pull it out for 2 mins randomly and doom scroll.
The Docomo Card Keita [1] was the exact same hardware yet ran Android. Lightphone II really should have just been an unlocked version (sim and bootloader) with a custom skin…
[1] https://goodereader.com/blog/e-paper/docomo-card-keitai-is-a...
> One thing I've been considering is moving away from having a phone altogether and just relying on an apple watch.
A. The battery life will not last a day in my experience AND the Apple Watch isn’t really usable while charging.
B. The UX of a smartwatch is a huge downgrade compared to any smartphone/feature phone. Wearing a watch on a wrist and operating it with the other hand is not an ergonomic operation beyond minimal interactions.
B. I think thats a feature not a bug. I don't want to be doing anything beyond minimal interactions. Call an Uber. Get directions. Respond to an important text. Answer/make urgent phone calls. Let my family know where I am.
Minimal interactions on an Apple Watch are checking the time/complications/notifications. Calling an Uber is not a minimal interaction in my experience…
There are other Eink phones besides the Lightphone II worth considering to prevent doom scrolling: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t1kLDZFZi6E
That said I’m now eager to hear your own evaluation. Please share if try the Apple Watch experiment (there’s also rumours of a new iPad mini launching next month if you want to try that too)
You are going to have about the same limitation with the laptop as the iPad, but more so. On the other hand, when you do pull it out it is also much more useful, because it has a keyboard.
[0]: yes you can use other laptops, I am assuming alooPotato is deep into the Apple Ecosystem.
Offline maps can lead us to free WiFi hotspots when we need it, but otherwise when we are out and about we are forced to live in the moment .
When we do need to look something up in a store or whatever we connect to WiFi and deal with it, because we still have functional phones. They are however limited as they run CalyxOS so there are are only webapps and open source tracking-free F-Droid apps. No intrusive profit-driven social media algorithms trying to manipulate more of my attention away from me.
Also battery life in airplane mode is over double.
When we want to waste time Iwestill do, but I am intentional about it. We have media center PCs, laptops, and desktop workstations but they don't follow us around.
It has been a major mental health win, not to mention a privacy win as our location can't be logged and sold anymore. And saving like $100/mo on 4G plans.
10/10 would recommend to almost anyone.
You could get most of that saving by switching to pay as you go; at least in Europe/Scandinavia. I spend perhaps 20 USD per year on my mobile because I hardly ever make any calls or use mobile data.
Be cautious about leaving wifi/bluetooth on. Your device's mac address can be logged even if you don't connect, and location data brokers could easily report to advertisers or other parties where you've been seen.
But seriously, I really like the idea behind the Lightphone. And also I think there are opportunities to really increase the attractiveness of the device. Why only focus on it being "designed to be used as little as possible"?
In such a device you can also focus on Really Good Privacy, Sustainable Design / Manufacturing (a la Fairphone), Open Hardware, FOSS extensions, Open Community (around the product). All in all a comprehensive set of USP's to be added.
(And talking about Privacy, the 11 trackers on the website can be removed first. This is low-hanging fruit)
Maybe they can offer that as an upgrade.
The target demographic for this phone is likely to be the completely non-tech savvy/your old grandparents.
The real demographic is the Silicon Valley iPhone user that fancies themself a minimalist and has an extra $300 to spend on a second phone for fun because it seems cool.
Main issue for me is missing iMessage makes this an immediate no go for that. It’s not really their fault, but it’s the truth.
The demographic is, ‘someone who needs basic phone functionality, but is trying to go cold turkey on distracting smart phone functionality’.
If you need Signal, you’re probably also not in the demographic. The idea is - you should want to NOT be able to check Signal, because that is crack to you.
It may not be as pure as a FB feed, but it’s the same dopamine hit.
I get the idea, but having a super sharp camera under my fingertips any given moment makes me feel happy. I don't use social media, but I love checking my stock/crypto portfolio often.
Why reinvent old Nokia and sell for $299?
That's the main smart feature I need.
So is that just a straight-up lie or does this phone not have any front-lighting or back-lighting at all? The photos clearly depict the screen showing white and grey, which, in case you failed elementary school science, contain blue light.
Blue light used during dark hours alters our sleep rhythm because our brain "tunes" itself according to the surrounding environment and light. A blue light tells our brain "we're in the morning, wake up up!" while a soft yellowish light tells the opposite "slow down, dusk is coming". Exposing ourselves to blue light or light with lots of blue components (example: cold white lamps) during night forces our brain to work in a different way that is not the one it should naturally at that hours. Spending many hours a day in a similar environment very likely alter the sleep hours with some side effects. So would a blue led on a phone kill anyone? Not at all, and it wouldn't either harm or do any serious damage; it's just really annoying to look at, especially in dark environments, but surely wouldn't be as bad as using a 6000K lamp to light a bedroom or as a TV backlight.
Unfortunately blue leds are extremely cheap to produce, so that pretty much every consumer gadget, especially those cheap gimmicks from the Far East, use them profusely even in places where other colors would be, also functionally, more suitable.
As far as I've been able to tell, there's very little in the way of literature that actually supports the "blue light" claims, but quite a lot of things which just self reference to support it.
> Unfortunately blue leds are extremely cheap to produce, so that pretty much every consumer gadget, especially those cheap gimmicks from the Far East, use them profusely even in places where other colors would be, also functionally, more suitable.
Huh? To begin with, all modern LEDs are blue, if you see a white LED, it's a blue LED, if you see a red LED, it's a blue LED. This is just down to physics more than anything, it's also much more economical to produce the same chemistry and just use phosphors to emit the color you actually want.
Blue LEDs emitting actual blue light however are vanishingly uncommon in any product at all, I don't recall the last time I've actually seen one. If you're talking about white LEDs being used in products? Well then yes, they will obviously contain blue light.
It is true that "white" LEDs are really blue or violet LEDs coated with phosphors that glow white or yellow (RGB LEDS with independently controlled red, green and blue LEDs are rare and only used in things like color-changing light bulbs).
It is not true that "if you see a red LED, it's a blue LED". Red LEDs are still made with semiconductors that directly emit red light (and the same goes for green, etc.). You can look at the spec sheets for LEDs on a distributor like Mouser and see the material used for each LED. The first red LED I came across directly emits red light using AlInGaP. I have never seen a "red LED" that uses a blue LED to excite a red phosphor. That would be even more expensive.
Taking into account the different forward voltages for different LED colors is a standard part of designing an LED circuit. One of the LED data sheets I have on hand for some 5 mm LEDs includes a forward voltage chart with 1.9 V for red and 3.2 V for blue.
Do you have a part number for a red LED that operates by illuminating a red phosphor with a blue LED?
I have no idea where you live, but in my sunny location the sunlight streaming through my window that wakes me up every morning is overpowering yellow. I associate "bluish" with darkness rather because evenings do become "bluer" before becoming dark. In fact, I have a colour changing LED bulb in my room, and I switch to yellow lights if I want to work longer at night - I find it more soothing on the eye, while it helps me be more "awake". The whitish / blueish light of the LED actually makes me feel drowsy.
On computer screens, I find that whitish / blueish light strain my eyes more, and thus apps like Flux - that change the display to a more yellowish tint - is more soothing and less stressful on the eyes.
But it kind of doesn’t matter. The web site quite clearly said that the screen doesn’t emit blue light, and since the screen is e-ink it presumably doesn’t; it only reflects it. The site made no such claim about the separate screen light.
(Live by the “technically correct is the best kind of correct”, die by the “technically correct is the best kind of correct”. ;) )