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Comment by midev | Hacker News Reader

> Most Americans have absolutely no idea what it is like to endure that sort of hardship

Which is great! Despite the flaws of capitalism, it's literally the point! As supply chains were impacted, new businesses and solutions filled the void. Given the vast amount of competition in things like toilet paper, automotive, etc, "shortages" just meant not getting your favorite brand for a few weeks.

> I know adults who act like they're going to starve because their peas were touching their potatoes.

I would take this over the horror shows of communism any day.

It's never a knock to say "your country is so good you've never had the massive hardships we have had!"

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Yes, my criticism is not directed towards the effectiveness of the supply chain. It’s true that we are mostly rich with consumer goods. However there are also numerous very serious problems with how we live in the United States, such as sustainability, even distribution of resources, efficiency and waste.

My point was that people in the United States do not have experience dealing with even very minor hardships effectively. If they were presented with truly difficult physical situations similar to what people in many parts of the world deal with frequently, they would not be able to handle it effectively on a number of levels.

> My point was that people in the United States do not have experience dealing with even very minor hardships effectively

Again, yes! Due to our success! These aren't at all a knock on American's. It's what every generation of ours has fought for. An easier life for our children.

I am very very very grateful that my son does not have to deal with what people in other parts of the world deal with. I love that the idea of having no running water, defecating in the streets, surrounded by dead bodies is a completely foreign concept to him. That he wouldn't know how to deal with such a situation. And I hope his children have it even easier. That we're so wealthy we have UBI, and they can study art and music, and want for nothing.

Sure, that’s all true. My concerns are somewhat unrelated to celebrating our success, though. I don’t believe Americans would have the experience, social customs, physical stamina, emotional fortitude or knowledge to survive reasonably well if conditions took a serious turn for the worse.

> I don’t believe Americans would have the experience, social customs, physical stamina, emotional fortitude or knowledge to survive reasonably well if conditions took a serious turn for the worse.

It wasn't flag football or nerf that got us to the top.... We literally dominated everyone in everything, and continue to do so. Whether it be the military, sports (we just got done dominating the Olympics), tech, whatever.

It's absurd to think that given societal collapse, it would be the American's that struggle the most, and not, you know, the people that can't even make it when times are good...

You can knock us with a bunch of made up criticisms, like "emotional fortitude". But at the end of the day, every country still bends the knee to our "physical stamina". So that doesn't really say much about the rest of you surviving if conditions took a turn for the worse.

Of course the United States has been very successful in the past, leading to our current position, which I don’t think is quite as firmly or permanently primary as you believe. The reasons for American dominance in the late 20th century are numerous. I’d point out that we weren’t the site of any major wars in the 20th century, unlike most other developed nations.

The “people who can’t make it while times are good” are already surviving under the difficult conditions we are discussing, so I’m not sure what you mean.

I do believe that emotional fortitude is a real thing that affects people’s ability to function under duress. And you’re correct, America currently maintains an incredibly expensive military dominance. I’m not sure how you think that addresses anything I said. My concerns are about the social fabric of the country not being particularly resilient and middle/upper class individuals being entirely inexperienced at dealing with actual physical hardships. That’s not something that a strong military or past success is going to fix for us.

The (very briefly touched upon) topic is what Americans would do if they had to endure conditions such as those experienced in the USSR, for any theoretical reason. Basically all I said is that many people would find it difficult, having never experienced that.

> That we're so wealthy we have UBI, and they can study art and music, and want for nothing.

I'm not going to romanticize Communist shortages, but I think this sentence shows a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature, and highlights the primary problem with capitalism. The idea that if we have UBI, that we're suddenly going to be a nation of poets, artists and philosophers is a utopian fantasy in my opinion.

I know more than a couple trust fund kids. They literally do "want for nothing", and they are universally miserable. Anecdata, sure, but even when you look at trust fund kids that are happy, it's usually because they were instilled with a strong work ethic - they had to find how to struggle at something, even if it wasn't financial.

If you talk to what most people and find what really makes them happy (and their have been actual studies about this), it is human relationships, a sense of dignity, and pride in themselves that brings them happiness. More cheap consumer goods from China are unlikely to fill that void.

Possibly this is one of the greatest ironies of life - that most trust fund kinds are miserable.

Just one (somewhat trivial but perhaps not) thing was all the entrepreneurial activity by individual and adjacent businesses to create more stylish/higher quality/etc. masks. Now perhaps one could make a rational argument that we'd be better off with just a bunch of standard N95 masks period. But people are funny and one shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

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