Jury awards Optis $300M in second patent trial against Apple
reuters.com
reuters.com
I wonder if Gilstrap's shoulders ever hurt from singlehandedly holding up the entire world of patent trolling.
That's how stupid the system is. It's intentions initially were good, but nowadays it's really just made it apparent that it was for protecting affluent aristocrats from the government. Not to promote freedom for the citizens.
Juries can _and may_ nullify a law with their verdict (but only for the case in question)
Jury nullification is if everybody individually agreed the law is bad. But even so, a judge can request a retrial with a new jury. And your noble effort has been ruined.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8019332B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US8385284B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US8411557B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US9001774B2/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US8102833B2/en
https://www.essentialpatentblog.com/2018/03/magistrate-judge...
And secondly can apple stop doing business in east Texas all together so that Rodney gilstrap no longer has jurisdiction?
Yes, appeals in patent cases go to the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, and then to the Supreme Court. Both are based in Washington, DC.
> And secondly can apple stop doing business in east Texas all together so that Rodney gilstrap no longer has jurisdiction?
Venue can be complicated. See recent SCOTUS ruling here: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/16pdf/16-341_8n59.pdf
It might make sense in civil or criminal courts but not in technical courts.
The ironic thing is though you can be held in contempt of court if you believe the law is wrong and will not want to convict someone for a law you find immoral. So it's like "whats the point" then honestly. Having a dedicated judge determine my fate is a million times better than 8 morons that are pissed they gotta be there and call in every day to see if they get summoned.
In a case concerning patents, I can only imagine that deliberations might be end up akin to spinning the wheels of a slot machine.
It's too bad that Apple's, or the Rockstar's, plan to troll Google/Android makers collapsed when the chief district judge saw through Apple's ulterior motive and declared California the proper legal venue for hearing patent infringement case, pulling the case out of Judge Gilstrap's hand in the the Eastern District of Texas.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8019332B2/en application filed by LG Electronics Inc
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8385284B2/en application filed by Panasonic Corp
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8411557B2/en application filed by Panasonic Corp
https://patents.google.com/patent/US9001774B2/en application filed by Samsung Electronics Co
How a patent troll ended up with them, I don't know. But you can bet the only reason none of these big corps didn't use them against Apple or other big corporations is mutually assured destruction. They would not hesitate against a small company that's perceived as threatening which doesn't have a patent arsenal to fight back.I don't know anything about Optis, but I really don't like Apple's argument here. By this reasoning, you only get to patent things if you own factories and marketing and sales operations. If that's not you, if you're just a garage inventor, then you shouldn't be granted the patent, leaving it to be gobbled up by the likes of Apple instead. Seems very convenient for them.
Maybe it's really gigantic corporations who should not be allowed to own patents. When you're sitting on a gigantic mountain of cash like Apple, from what do you need protection?
Sure, that flawed argument has some appeal in simple, unitary products made for caveman in the prehistoric age.
According to RPX, it's estimated there are over 250,000+ active patents with thousands of unique inventors in any given modern smartphone today; and, of those, at least 23,00+ wireless patents were declared "standard essential" in GSM/3G alone. It's pretty dumb to argue that each individual inventor's patent, or the current assignee's, is legit if and only if they are in the business of making or productizing them themselves.
Let's personalize it:
Fulfilling that "standard" for my own personal patents would require me to register as a financial institution and employ people with all the licenses, some of which not one individual can hold all of simultaneously, actually run that institution, launch products, get traction on those products and then pat myself on the back because all is right with the world.
All because I had a particular idea in a niche market first, which only I consider an improvement and worthwhile at the priority date, while nobody else would or did.
So as someone with much more immediately lucrative and interesting ideas, I'm clearly not going to pursue that path. So.... are people proposing I just drop the idea when I had it, or what would the other incentive to share it with the world be? I should just let others independently come up with the idea an unknown number of years in the future and just say "hey look haha I had that idea a while back", or even worse, risk allowing reality to go in a completely different or less improved direction?
I feel fortunate that I was even able to afford to make a record of my idea in the compliant and uninfringeable way. I know plenty of people that are too segregated from the system to even attempt that. It is insulting to think "ah fuck that person [with $20,000] because they didn't build a prototype in their modest garage!" The gatekeeping, how does that even make sense?
Okay so now there is a document saying I had an idea first (speaking on behalf of all patent inventors), and even more rarely and privileged is that fact that I am not having to assign all my ideas to an employer who then owns the patent.
So what is being proposed here? I'm a "non practicing entity" and all my paths to monetization are invalid because of it? Should I leave it rhetorical?
Should I say "hey cool awesome tech or fintech firm, I really admire your work, you should buy my IP" because that works so well?
Should I say "hey cool awesome tech or fintech firm, cease and desist now" because that works so well?
Should I say "hey well capitalized company in the business of monetizing intellectual property, I'm trying to recoup costs so that I can build a workbench in my garage because people on the internet will respect me more so what kind of arrangements do you have for patents again?" thats likely whats going to happen and is the path people take
So what do you and anyone passing by actually propose? Because what is suggested doesn't really make sense and hasn't really factored in what individuals do and why
This video makes the case for the abolishment of IP pretty well: https://youtu.be/mnnYCJNhw7w
I'd be interested in seeing someone think these issues through more deeply. For example I know a reasonable amount about the development of next-gen DNA sequencers. How would developments like this have played out in a world without patents?
It doesn't seem feasible to say that academics would be willing to prepay to fund the development of a life science tool that might help their research and appear in 10 years time or might just fail and not get developed at all. Research markets were the initial markets for these instruments.
Same goes for drug discovery, perhaps they need some new analytical tool. So do they directly fund multiple high risk approaches to develop this tool? In our current scenario VCs/startups take on this risk, in exchange for a time limited monopoly.
It doesn't seem reasonable to expect individual drug development companies to take on this risk. Do they ask prospective users of the drug to pay these downstream development costs? Do they take out a loan to cover the development costs?
There are solutions, it just takes the political will. The patent office is funded through patent fees and appears to suffer no consequence for issuing bad patents. So the patent office seems to be encouraged to keep issuing patents good or bad…
They are increasingly expensive, with the 11.5 year fee being $7700.
You could raise these fees, but how are you going to set them? Based on industry? Ultimately just feels like you’d end up making things harder for individual inventors and easier for big businesses and patent trolls.
Personally I think there are a few reforms that might work. Firstly, software patents do not seem to be useful. They don’t seem to have been required for the development of the software industry, and in general they’ve not been allowed in the past.
Secondly, patents should never prevent the sale or incorporation of a technology into a product. Courts should always demand royalties be paid to the patent holder, based on the profit the infringing party receives.
That’s much more problematic. But it feels like there should be a way to incentivize the continued sale of products so that a company can’t just sit on a patent.
Or maybe a first-sale doctrine that allows a single sale but doesn't allow further sales. You better be sure you want it because once you bought it the resale value is zero? Then troll companies wouldn't be able to sweep up lots of older patents to use in trolling.
Or, it could be like trade marks, of you're not using the patent in a product then you lose it, unless you're the original inventor. If I sell you the patent, then you keep it to troll with you have to make a product that uses it, and sell that product, otherwise the patent expires. It doesn't return to the inventor - they got paid - it enters the public domain.
These ideas are entirely my own and presented for entertainment only.
Nitpick: that’s the exact opposite of the “first sale doctrine”. The first sale doctrine says that, once I buy something, I can do whatever I want with the product. If I want to shoot bullets at a $1000 smartphone for YouTube views, Apple, Samsung, etc. can’t prevent me from doing so.
There are exceptions to this (EULAs and all that), but the general idea is that.
My off-the-cuff proposal would be 'a' first-sale doctrine that would exhaust the rights of an IPR creator by preventing them from being transferred. To a [further] third party. This mirrors 'the' first-sale doctrine.
Of course 'a' first-sale doctrine is just a protocol related to a first transference - in the case you reference that's transference of goods to a consumer, in my proposal the transference was of IPR rights to a manufacturer/troll/company.
All those things require costly government mandated testing.
But it feels like the same arguments could apply to many things. Many deep tech projects require 100M+ to develop, and it’s difficult for me to see how these projects might get funded.
Not to mention that for software there's a good chance that this would just supercharge DRM and SaaS.
Because mechanical engineering isn't only math? Math is used of course, but that's true about essentially all professions. But yes, if there is some sort of a pure mathematical model/equation that could apply to mechanical engineering, I'm sure the GP would also agree that it should not be patentable.
Neither is software: memory constraints, latency, reliability, cpu speed.
Almost the entire cryptography field relies on physical limitations on execution speed. Anyone working on even remotely real time systems has to account for these same limitations and possibly work around them.
Every student learns about runtime and memory complexity of various algorithms. Something that would be entirely irrelevant in a purely mathematical context. At what speed does an ideal Turing machine run? How much memory does it have?
E.g. can you get rich from developing scientific software? Probably not. Perhaps patents can be of use there.
Don’t agree with the patent system particularly, but I just object to this specific categorical statement.
The “trolls” or non practicing entities are just as much a piece of this system as everyone else. The patent inventor has to recoup as $15000 is a lot to them, the trolls have to recoup as their millions of dollars of patent purchases is a lot to them, and the companies that build use unfathomable amounts of capital to build at all and it is ridiculous to suggest the inventor or the NPE do that.
Maybe the government should just buy patents and not leverage them. If there is no comprehensive patent regulatory change people can agree on.
I was explaining why people do what they do.
I don't understand this approach. I hate patent trolls as much as anyone else, but my feelings are irrelevant to the laws, no? Who cares what Apple lawyers feel honestly? Where does it say in patent laws that only patents you are utilizing to the max 24/7 are viable and "real patents"?
Patent trolls are patent trolls but as SC said many times, if you don't like how we interpret current laws, change them and make them more precise.
Besides, its not like Apple hasn't been a "patent troll" themselves - anyone remembers Apple vs Samsung re too much curved corners?
https://tmep.uspto.gov/RDMS/TMEP/current#/current/TMEP-900d1...
They put work into them. Apple, one of the largest patent holders in the world, is telling it don't accept patent law. The same law they use to hold one of the largest pool of patents in the world both created internally and bought from other companies.
The same company that most likely will become a patent "troll" or sell patents to one when the business will decline.