How to deal with the PhD requirement in Research industry? | Hacker News Reader

How to deal with the PhD requirement in Research industry?

5 pointsfluorene11 comments

Hello, HN pros.

I have looked in this area a bit and have realized you need a minimum PhD to work in the tech research. For example, Google Research, MS Research, Quant Research in a Trading Firm, etc.

Now, a PhD does take around 5 years of time with no salary as such.

I am an Asian who is cs senior undergrad graduating in 2022. I already have got a offer at 95k usd per year for a software engineer role once i graduate. It's huge money for me. I have been funding my undergrad with a 5k usd per year scholarship.

Now I am actually interested in doing research rather than being a software engineer. And I know I am good at it. (If its fun then I am good aint i?)

Me and my parents have a concern that i might be wasting 95k*5 ~ 0.5 mil usd into a phd and my job would be something like 200k-300k usd per year which i could even get after 5 years of swe exp. They arent wrong I believe.

What options do I have now? (Not losing 0.5 million and still being able to do good research)

The firm with the 95k offer will never let me get into research. They only want software engineers. They hire only phds for research.

I have thought of some scenarios: 1. I work a few years (3-5) at 95k usd. save money for fam. do phd next 5 yrs. try to get a offer that might ignore the revenue i lose in those 5 years.

2. I do partime work senior year ug and then try to get partime work/ many industry internships during phd so i still be able to make ~60-70k usd per year (Not doable I think)

3. I not do phd and stay in a swe role which is interesting but i will always regret not doing research. (noooo)

4. I join a firm which identifies my research potential in UG itself. It provides for a transition from say swe-level role to phd level research without a phd in within 5 years of swe-level role. (i guess no one allows someone to do phd-level research without phd).

Any ideas? Any comments?

If you want a Phd get a Phd. If you don't want a Phd, don't get a Phd.

There are costs and benefits to either course of action. Neither is right or wrong.

On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with companies seeking candidates with Phd's for research roles either. They have financial interests too.

It's not unfair because it is not unreasonable.

Good luck.

As a math professor, I agree with this.

I'd also say, if you choose to get a PhD, then commit fully to it. In particular don't spend a lot of time on side gigs unless you must.

There are more PhD recipients than there are research jobs available, so any entry-level job that requires a PhD is likely to require a strong PhD, with a full-throated recommendation from your advisor.

I cannot help you, of course, but I have some observations:

- In some countries, like the Netherlands, you can get a reasonable salary doing a PhD. Although not $95k, certainly enough to live on and save a bit.

- Nothing is stopping you to do research on your own in computer science. For most of computer science all you need is a computer, an academic network, and a lot of time. If for nothing else, if you decide to postpone your PhD, being active in research might help you get a running start when you do start pursuing your PhD.

- Not all research happens at the big labs. And not all positions are for PhDs per se. For example, a job as a scientific programmer might also be of interest. Or join a start-up that is exploring and implementing some novel and innovative idea.

- Although doing research is great, at least in academia, you spend a lot of time on less exciting stuff like hunting for grants, publishing without much new to say, teaching, organization, and so on.

- Panning for the future is hard. Postponing pursuing your PhD now might mean you never get around to it. Or doing it now might mean that you burn out on it, while if you'd start working first you might get into a better state mentally/financially/family-wise/... in a couple of years to do your PhD. Or you might discover that you like your career a lot more than you expected and want to stay. Or you discover you do not like being a software developer at all. ...

Personally, when confronted with these sort of decisions, I have always put my own interest first. That might sound a bit egoistic or asocial, and it probably is, but if am unhappy I am not much help to anyone.

> an academic network, and a lot of time.

These two in particular sound difficult to obtain outside of an academic setting.

Completing a PhD is risky. I'd recommend reading this to see some of the ways it can go wrong: https://100rsns.blogspot.com/

Ultimately it's a big commitment. Speak to as many people as you can who've walked the specific path you want to head down i.e. being an industry researcher.

I completed a PhD in my early twenties, and though I took a completely different career path, the skills I picked up completing it have been extremely useful. I was lucky in that it was fully funded, and was setup to finish it inside 4 years. A lot of that was down to the research group I joined, and in particular the supervisor.

The impact of financial freedom on what you can and cannot pursue is huge. Here is one approach:

Fill up your savings/investments, while keeping your wants meagre. Get yourself into a position where you feel comfortable and secure earning an entry level salary. At that point it is easier to convince people to give you a chance at doing research, especially if you are not demanding much of a salary initially.

This of course assumes that you won't hate the SE work and would be reasonably happy doing it for 4-5 years.

You should ask yourself, when you are 80 years old, what do you think you will regret more? Not attempting a PhD or missing out on five years of an entry level job?

I tried to get a PhD, but after a year I figured out the academic life was not for me. So I took a masters degree and left. The masters degree opened doors to me that otherwise would not have been open if I only had a bachelor's.

Can you elaborate on the benefits you have experienced from the masters degree?

The more specific the better.

I often hear that CS Masters aren’t worth it financially because it’s not going to particularly get you any job you can’t get without it, and the universities mostly run the MS programs for foreign students that want to purchase US visa access.

Getting a masters in economics let me get a job in Data Science.

My data science team will be hiring soon and there will be a strong preference for candidates who also have masters degrees.

In my experience, people with masters degrees have a better understanding of statistical fundamentals and do a better job of translating business problems into a something that can be modeled using data sci tools.

PS: I believe PhD has become a test of wealth as time is money. Only those who can afford to earn no money for 5-6 years are the ones who can do a phd.

This shouldn't keep people who cant do so out of research industry.. right?

Personally, I think the PhD route is a waste of time and money. But if you feel very strongly about it, then you might as well do it.

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