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Comment by adam12 | Hacker News Reader

Tim Cook basically lied to Congress when he stated that developers can create web apps as an alternative to using the app store.

Edit: In order for this to be true, Apple (at the very least) needs to enable push notifications and an install prompt for progressive web apps.

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Apple did plan to make web apps first class on iPhones. But changed their minds when developers complained about not getting hard metal access. Maybe they thought that supporting web apps would get them more apps, but developers gave them apps for free and it allowed Apple to have a monopoly. Microsoft tried the same with their phones but somehow failed... Google went the web app route on ChromeOS with decent success. Mozilla tried with FirefoxOS but was too early - FirefoxOS is now very popular but under another name on low end hardware phones.

Makes sense because even my oldish Macbook Pro goes into afterburner mode trying to browse the modern Internet.

PWA are explicitly exempt from the data storage wipe behavior[1]. So there's that, at least. For now.

Although I agree that it's a fairly minor win in the grand scheme of how handicapped PWA's are on iOS. And like you said, the lack of install prompts and tucking away the PWA "installation" option in the share menu makes it less than intuitive and requires manual awareness efforts by devs[2].

[1] Last section of https://webkit.org/tracking-prevention/

[2] https://michaellisboa.com/blog/prompt-ios

That’s only half true. PWA are exempt from data storage wipe behaviour only if they have been added to the Home Screen. And as your second article points out:

> It’s important to ensure that our iOS visitor is using Safari because iOS doesn’t permit other browsers to install our awesome PWA’s!

So if the user is using Firefox or Chrome etc browser, they can’t do it. And since all browsers have to use WKWebView, the limitation applies to all browsers. Apple has basically crippled other browsers with this anti competitive behaviour.

I don’t get why so many tech people think that “allowing alternative browser engines” will do anything to change policy decisions made by Apple.

Like wish granted! You can now use Blink and V8 on iPhones! But…

* They still are required to delete website data after 7 days.

* They must distribute add-ones through the App Store.

* They still can’t run workers in the background because the browser is slept like any other app.

* They have to use Apple’s notification service like any other app.

* They can’t install things to the Home Screen because no other app can.

But yayyyy. Blink!

But it's totally a valid option to have an app that is a web app and does not have push notifications. For the vast majority of apps regardless of platform, I absolutely do not want push notifications. It seems bizarre to consider that feature as a litmus test for whether the web is a usable platform on iPhones. Would you also require web apps to appear in the App Store in order to consider a web as a usable platform on iPhones?

That’s a fair point, but I’d argue that for cases where the app really needs notifications (for example an alerting system) or when the users want them, building a web app is not actually an alternative even if Apple considers it one.

I don't think Apple considers the web as an alternative platform for apps that are designed to alert you at any time of day for any reason, including when you are not actively using your devices. I think this is a very, very good thing, and doesn't mean that web apps are not a viable alternative to the App Store.

I'm creating a chess pwa that should notify the user when their opponent has moved.

I don't think this web app is going to do as well on Apple devices because of the lack of notifications and also the difficulty to add to home screen.

BTW, you have to give the web app permission to notify. It's not like native apps.

Apple has clearly crippled PWAs to maintain their walled garden.

If you add the website to homescreen (make it an “app”) then the 7 day storage limit does not apply.

This makes total sense to me, and I’m happy Facebook can’t store tracking data in my Safari for longer than 7 days.

> I’m happy Facebook can’t store tracking data in my Safari for longer than 7 days.

They’re storing it somewhere, no? I feel like the benefit here is more so the browser file system doesn’t get bloated

Clearing site data makes total sense. Otherwise after a year of web usage you have multiple GB of stored website data that the user does not know what it is being used for or how to clear it.

And the majority of uses for local data is to cache fetched data or store temporary preferences not worthy of being in the server side database.

I love the truth and ain't a Apple fanboi by any means, but this is not a lie to me.

Can you run a PWA on an iPhone? Yes, you can even pin them to the start screen to keep data long term, as others have pointed out.

Are you able to use all features other browsers enable? No, only the ones Apple allows.

I'd assume Tim has a different definition of what an app is than what you're thinking of.

I mean, he's correct in the same sense that a Buick can't be made to haul a fifth wheel trailer. It's because a modern Buick's design doesn't include the bed required to install the fifth wheel on.

Nevermind that there's nothing strictly stopping GM from changing the designs for Buicks to include a vehicle capable of a fifth wheel mount.

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