Comment by danrocks | Hacker News Reader

Comment by danrocks | Hacker News Reader

I live in Hong Kong. Arrived here right when the second wave of protests started, in 2018. The speed with which China is changing the face of the city since then has been incredible, if disheartening. In a mere three years, we went from having a free press, district council elections, a vibrant online community, a combative but reasonably effective LegCo.

All that is gone.

Head over to the South China Morning Post and see the comments in the articles. All dominated by mainland Chinese, possibly working for the central government. Companies are leaving in droves, taking valuable people with them. Schools are being told to teach National Security Law to kids as young as 5. Even international schools are facing the challenge of allowing discussion in the classroom, under the risk of breaking the NSL.

Last week, HK won a medal in fencing at the Olympics. During the medal ceremony, at a packed shopping mall, many people booed the Chinese anthem. They were deemed to be breaking the NSL and were arrested. FOR BOOING THE ANTHEM.

https://apnews.com/article/2020-tokyo-olympics-sports-arrest...

The National Security Law also prohibits any kind of chants during (now non-existent) protests. People then found a creative way to protest by holding out empty signs in the streets - turns out they're outlawed now too. Yes, empty signs break the National Security Law.

This city has been destroyed in the span of months. It's depressing and heart-breaking. I am moving out with my family next summer.

Similar situation here. Moved here a bit more recently than you, national security law became a thing after I arrived, and it’s been more and more aggressively enforced since.

If you’re leaving to the US, can I ask how you’re going about it? My email is in my profile if you don’t want to post here. I’m trying to leave as well but my fiancée is facing what looks like a year or two long immigration process.

It’s a bit of a shame that the U.S. government passes so many proclamations of support or “it’s dangerous in HK” statements, but makes it hard to actually return.

I am actually relocating to another Asian country, not to the US. I totally agree the US has pledged support but right now with zero practical effect.

If you are a U.S. citizen, your fiancé should be able to apply for a K1 visa. Then you'll need to get married within 90 days of entering the U.S. I'm sure you were planning on having some type of celebration of your marriage, but I highly recommend getting legally married asap. Once married, your fiancé will be eligible for a green card. Married green card holders can get citizenship after 3 years, so it's definitely helpful to get the clock ticking.

We spoke with some legal counsel, and they told us that K1 wait times have gone through the roof, 8 months to a year just to even get the consulate interview. As far as we understood, we would have to wait until the visa was approved before entering the states and getting married.

I wish you luck.

I hope the UK visa (and other safe havens?) is quick & easy enough?

I read an article the other day that CCP is not surprisingly taking advantage to get party members (e.g. spies) in so I really hope that doesn't um up the process.

The US is making this mistake with Afghanis but seems like there is enough political pressure now that at least we're getting them to a safer intermediary country. Not quick enough though.

It's our moral responsibility, just as it is UK's after their colonization and then abdication of power.

Canada is accepting democracy activists as refugees from Hong Kong:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-star...

Human rights are not a thing in communism. The only thing that matters is success of the party. Its accumulation of power is the measuring stick. Capitalist economics are only allowed because it helps the party succeed and not for any other reason. That's why they execute and fire billionaires all the time. If they are not helping the party succeed in its quest for global domination, they get fired and lose all their assets, rights and even their lives.

Isn’t this a property of autocracy? It’s true that pretty much every implemented communist society became autocratic but there are systems - like the one in Iran - that similarly care only about the success of the party in power. The problem is not communism as such but of unchecked, concentrated power.

Turns out when you philosophically align your country around the idea that the state and the collective are more important than the individual, autocracy always flourishes.

well, history in general shows autocracy flourishes whether or not the individual or the collective is primary, not sure you can claim a correlation there

Just like Japan? South Korea? Taiwan? Singapore? Or on the other side, pretty much the entire Middle East?

Collectivist Asian cultures can definitely manage separation of powers and democracy.

I always wonder whether Japan, Korea, Taiwan would be able to preserve separation of powers without US support. I feel like if US one day declines in power and won't be able to support then, they would fall into autocracies pretty quickly.

You could say the same about a lot of non-Asian countries, though. Australia/NZ for a start, but I can imagine much of Eastern Europe too.

Taiwan used to be an autocracy too yet turned itself into a liberal democracy. At least "right wing" autocrats have goals, albeit misguided ones, and power is a mean to an end; but communist are obsessed by power and power alone.

>At least "right wing" autocrats have goals, albeit misguided ones, and power is a mean to an end; but communist are obsessed by power and power alone.

I don't think that's true at all.

Most of the Middle-Eastern dictators are "right wing" and have no goal apart from seizing and holding onto power.

On the communist side, while that would be the case for many leaders, both Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro come to mind as exceptions. Keeping it strictly to "CCP-style" communism, Wen Jiabao jumps out as someone who saw the CCP beauracracy as a positive means to an end.

> both Ho Chi Minh and Fidel Castro come to mind as exceptions

What do you mean?

I may be wrong, but from what I understand they had other goals than the pursuit of power and power alone. Specifically national independence, in both cases.

Yeah, those are called excuses.

Notice how the global plague to free speech and innovation dictates anyone critical of this murder legion gets the on no no negative karma online? Why don't we change that? Every day. For the rest of our lives?

The city was almost destroyed in 2019. Remember the molotov cocktails? The petrol bombs? The universities that turned into war zones? The vandalism of all kinds of public property?

I don't like many of the things the Hong Kong government is doing, but I can understand why they feel they need to do it.

No one burned down an AutoZone.

I think a major point here is that it's not the HK government anymore it's CCP.

I wouldn't bother replying due to your submission history, but I will. The city was not "almost destroyed" in 2019. There were months-long protests with hundreds of thousands of people, and they only became violent after the government saw the need to repress violently instead of negotiating. Remember the Yuen Long attacks? The triads brought from Shenzhen? Legislators all in white saluting the gangs before they attacked people who were not armed? That's what caused the violence.

The Hong Kong government isn't doing anything. It's all the CPG.

I am glad someone not actually from HK to point out all every single one of these incidents.

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