1Password for Mac Moving to Electron
twitter.com
twitter.com
Recent and related: 1password is considering a self-hosted option to store vaults - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28104134 - Aug 2021 (215 comments)
https://twitter.com/1Password/status/1425429965747720200
But no, they used this strategy to support a trash cross-platform frontend. Wonderful. Will be evaluating ElPass this weekend.
I see two possibilities:
1. They were told "it was written in Rust, mention that a bunch and link this blogpost for street cred" and actually have no idea what either Rust or Electron is beyond they're "technologies."
2. It's a ham-handed attempt at distraction.
My money is on #1.
I've been a 1Password user for years but have staunchly resisted going to their subscription model because I want my data local. It's infuriating that 1Password has steadily downplayed standalone versions to the point where it's almost impossible to find.
I guess I'm staying on the current version for as long as possible and then considering options.
I will state for the record that I think this is mindblowingly stupid.
Eh? They literally show the standalone app in the Tweet this submission links to.
[0] https://twitter.com/_cprecioso/status/1425429383880318980
Have you ever used an electron app? Typically slow and laggy. Worse, your workflow is typically slower since the user don’t get any the advantages of native integration.
They didn't even bother using a real window for the app settings, they just use an Electron modal window.
Electron is the explanation and it takes up CPU, RAM and Disk Space. If you are running other Electron apps, 1Password is now going to be even more slower.
> and in comparison to what?
In comparison to 1Password 7 which that is fully native vs the upcoming 1Password 8 which is sitting inside an entire browser.
But even through basic inspection, almost all Electron apps are always more than 120MB of disk space (After unzipping) and when run it is copied to RAM which is at least another 120MB.
Multiply that with the number of Electron apps you are currently running and you can see that it doesn't scale on the limited resources of your own machine. Especially if the user is primarily using Chrome with tons of tabs open.
[0] https://scl.utah.edu/pdf/mac_mgrs/20200617_mm/20200617_mm_el...
Finally we bundled everything using Electron to allow us to integrate deeply with the operating system.
This is going to cause all sorts of grief when we are forced to upgrade the iOS app to align with 8 and lose the ability to sync via that. I wouldn't mind paying for a Family license if I didn't have to use their sync service - I just don't trust it (marketing-wise, reliability-wise and security-wise, since it's designed purely as a retention factor) and would vastly prefer sticking to pure iCloud syncing.
I don't think they care - they are chasing the enterprise market who doesn't care how well the desktop client works as long as it integrates with their enterprise SSO solution and gives them the audit logs they need.
My company uses 1Password, and their license includes a free 1Password family license for employees.
If that's accurate, goodbye 1password. I was irked (but understood) the move into a subscription model, but this step would make no sense from a personal sec-ops perspective. While I generally am not a fan of iCloud (and how it forces certain things to sync onto devices), I really do NOT want yet another "cloud" to store incredibly sensitive info like password vaults.
(Curmudgeon engaged) These company communications are just a few ironic emojis away from fitting in with Facebook MLM spam and don't instill much confidence.
- On macOS, half the time auto fill doesn't work. Saving a password is very inconsistent.
- When you auto generate a password, the least resistance UI workflow is to first save and fill it - but then when you create the account it is saved again, making it a duplicate.
- The "move to trash" button is obscurely hidden somehow (used to be much better).
- And don't get me started on the Windows client - on my fast gaming PC it takes forever just to unlock the vault.
I've cancelled my subscription and won't renew once it runs out.
It’s really interesting to hear these differences in experience for the same product. I wonder why it’s happening? Gotta be something going on there.
No idea if your experience has been different, just a thought!
Edit: Okay, it sounds like from the comments, it does use Electron. Then my followup question is, if people are upset with 1Password moving in this direction, then Bitwarden would not be a good alternative, no?
Not saying it doesn't frustrate me with other things. I haven't used the Mac client in a while but I remember it being really good though
It’s not unrealistic that people will fear the same is going to happen to 1Password.
VS Code is the example that shows that you can create great Electron apps, but can you name three more?
Electron get a lot of flak, because it’s misused by webdevelopers, who thinks it will magically make them able to write good desktop app.
Microsoft also had the good fortune that few expect an IDE to be particular light weight. For what it does no one is going to care if it eats a gig or two of RAM. If my chat client or password manager does the same I’m going to be annoyed.
I am a happy user of VS Code but it feels super slow if you use it shortly after using Qt Creator (QtCreator is written in C++).
VSCode was an electron app from day one and never tried to be a first-class Mac app while the only reason 1Password is around today is because customers loved having a lightweight, native manager that always was quick to support new OS features.
Essentially, native Mac apps switching to electron is a bait and switch.
There were a couple quirks in the early days but it improved at a rapid clip.
It's almost like they have a native Rust backend that makes it possible for them to still use platform-specific features like that...
But a password manager is supposed to be a small, unobtrusive app, something you forget unless you need a password. Not the big thing you are working with all day long.
I literally don't understand the derision. Not one person in this thread has said anything about the Linux client yet everyone wants to chime in about how electron sucks and is a resource hog without an inkling of what the actual state of their client is
Also I checked Activity Monitor on macOS. 1Password 7 uses up 120 MB of RAM. The new 1Password uses up... 50MB.
Also - they’ve publically states the new app was built using technologies none of their employees have used before so I don’t expect them to build an electron app better than anyone else.
With the UI closed, the new app only uses 50MB of memory. They've done an excellent job on this.
I feel the same way about JetBrains products—I sure wish they weren’t clunky Java behemoths, but I’m really glad they run on the OS I use.
VS Code does laps around the "native" Nova editor.
Speed-wise it's not the best, but it's till reasonable.
1Password for Windows slowly(!) caught up, and even after all this investment, they decided that going for a web-based UI across all desktop OSes is the better solution.
Tower did not change this: Their Windows version is still lacking, and I am still confused by their website about which features are Mac-only and which are also on Windows.
Are they in a better position now for sticking with native apps? I stopped using them and moved to GitKraken that has the same UI across OSes. It is not as pleasing as that mature macOS version of Tower, but it is still better than constantly switching between an awesome and a "meh" app.
Maybe cross-platform consistency is more important than having one main attraction and multiple sideshows.
[1]: https://git-fork.com
A couple of times when I’ve had support queries I’ve got quick email responses directly from the developer too.
As mentioned, the developer(s) are very responsive to e-mails and have been very nice when dealing with my stupid questions and suggestions.
Definitely recommended.
I think the whole idea behind Electron is that they've also put out a native Linux version. Which is much, much better than having to run an extension in the browser, and gets some system integration (unlock with yubikey).
From the screenshots, it would seem the Mac version is the same as the Linux version (currently version 8.1.1 on my machine). One big step back is if you have multiple vaults (say personal + company) you have to open each one individually. No more one password unlocks everything.
1Password could afford a native Linux version.
Yes.
> 1Password could afford a native Linux version.
Especially since the "core" is written in a different language anyway, which can be common across platforms.
I've never really done actual GUI development, but the 1Password GUI is fairly limited in what you can do. It's basically a list you can filter and a bunch of text fields. Yeah, it shows an animated countdown on the OTP field, which consumes a ton of CPU. Can't say I see a lot of value in that. [0]
My point is that to someone whose job it is code, it shouldn't take to long to do a similar thing in QT / GTK. But I guess they'd still need more people than doing just Electron.
---
[0] When the first versions came out on Linux, there was actually an FAQ entry about unusually high CPU usage. The solution given was to switch to a login without OTP or to close the main window.
It’s very out-of-place design wise compared to Tower too, being an Electron app.
That being said BitWarden uses Electron and Angular for their desktop apps as well.
> The overwhelming majority of people (97% in fact) choose to subscribe to our new service and many of those who initially purchased a license later changed their mind and traded it in for a membership.
(Source: https://1password.community/discussion/comment/601917/#Comme...)
Which is quite dishonest IMO.
At least they weren't "joining" Google or Microsoft.
Work out the energy use per hour of the old vs the new system * number of installs. See how much extra millions of tons of carbon 1password is spewing into the air because of their technology change!
Reminder: when a company chooses a technology stack that suits them (the developers of the software) and NOT the end users, then things tend to go badly.
Multiply the "slightly" by 100 million installs!
...Ooookay, now times that by everyone commuting.
Completely native to Mac and iOS, and sync via iCloud.
first impressions, massively faster than 1Password 7. Feels "lean."
Even if you're mostly Apple today, it seems prudent to have some sort of exit strategy that doesn't involve massive switching costs.
I use a variety of platforms. I'm happy 1password switched to Electron; it means I have a Linux version that works super well. It even integrates with face recognition through Howdy.
By the way, I also think subscription models are superior to buy-once. They align incentives for customers and developers better -- they got a bad rap thanks to Adobe charging silly amounts of money, but 1password isn't doing that.
I've switched from 1Password to Enpass as well, however my experience is a bit... mixed...
Not sure i'd fault something specific, however the overall polish 1Password has still isn't there.
I'm using Enpass on Linux, Mac and iOS - my SO still has an 1Password 4.something install (i think) on her Windows computer.
If that one is going to somehow "expire", i'm going to selfhost Bitwarden probably...
Edit: ok, wow - there really is an App called Elpass - TIL...
Edit2: sure, bring on the downvotes :S i guess no one ever naively assumed that 2 letters almost next to each other could have been a typo.
To further explain why i assumed it was a typo is because i've never, ever heard of Elpass before - all the while being a user of password managers for years. Even more so when researching my options about 2 years ago before switching to Enpass and never heard of Elpass being mentioned, not even once.
I suppose it is pretty new-ish then? Or a hidden gem? Or gosh both?
There are a couple of security risks associated with moving to Electron, but I believe the company has the resources to keep up with them. So it's more of a user experience issue. I don't really mind how the app looks, as long as it looks the same as the other applications on my system, and works consistently amongst them, and it's here that Electron's bad reputation really starts to make itself known.
I downloaded the beta, signed in, and played around for a bit. Some thoughts:
• The scroll bars don't just look different, they act different. There's no overscroll, which I'm really used to. Also, when I scroll fast through a list, the scrolling indicator lags as it tries to catch up.
• Resizing the window lags a lot, and in between lag frames, you can see shades of grey as the renderer tries to catch up. 1Password 7 is damn near instant when you resize it.
• Icons and text pop into view after you've scrolled, rather than as you scroll. 1Password 7 is buttery smooth in comparison.
• Fonts look weird. 1Password 7 text looks like every other app on my system; 1Password 8 text looks blurry. Every time I look at it, it looks wrong.
• The Preferences window used to be a separate window, like it is for all other applications; now, it's a modal. You can't view the preferences and the vault at the same time.
• Oh, and it opened already using more memory than the 1Password 7 instance I've had running for _weeks_.
I really have no idea why they decided to ruin a great app like this. 1Password 8 is, as far as I can see, worse in every way than 1Password 7.
I have to wonder what percentage of 1Password users know what languages or frameworks 1Password uses, much less care what languages or frameworks it uses? I assume it must be a fraction of 1%.
But it comes at a price of higher resource usage and slower apps. It’s not a big deal to wait a couple seconds to load something like VSCode when I’m going to leave it open and use it all day, but I don’t want to invoke all of that overhead for a simple password manager that gets opened and closed all day.
I really wish they’d focus on fast, lean native apps. They have the funding, a high price point, and even recurring revenue to fund it. This feels like an arbitrary decision that sounds good on paper but misses the fact that they’re best served by small, lean native apps.
Even the best electron apps, suck as macOS (or windows or linux) citizens. There are little things that don't just work properly.
Only Electron app that’s been half decent is VS Code, but that’s a full blown editor. Wasting RAM on a password manager due to Electron is a no go for me.
Wondering if they will refund my outstanding balance into cash
At the end of the day, It's a lot of investment to build an app native for macos, linux and windows. Plus the web. Plus CLI. Plus multiple native mobile platforms. If you can trade 75% of that out for a single "platform", then you can focus all your engineers on the same thing. More features, sooner, and available for everyone - no more 2nd class platforms.
Almost of the core applications that drive basically everything in my life, including Brave, 1Password, Inkdrop, VS Code, Email, Office Suite, Slack, Discord... are either directly in browser (Ex Gmail & Outlook.com), Electron or some similar "browser in a box" type solutions. Yes, I am unusual in that I work on Mac, Windows and Linux machines on a regular basis. However it's amazing that all my apps work the same everywhere I go.
You know what else is awesome about that? I can recommend those apps to everyone, regardless of what platform you're on. No more "Just use X? Oh you're on a mac... uh... sorry no idea". Ask me for help? Cool, works the same everywhere so I can help you.
Exactly. I vastly prefer this than the slight (if any) performance advantage with native apps, and I've used plenty of slow native apps too. Bad code is bad code and it's strange how much dogmatic hate Electron gets on HN.
I don't care if my IDE takes an extra beat or so. But I want and need my password right fast, as soon as I need it. Every slow app that I use is by necessity not choice. Slack would be the first thing I uninstall as soon as my work doesn't need it, it would honestly be my first action.
Another is MFA support, native keychain doesn't support that at all.
But this is such a step backwards it doesn’t seem worth continuing with 1Password, after more than a dozen years.
Yet another app that will no longer be accessible to many people.
Are there any good bitwarden alternatives? (shared env pass managers)
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In my experience it's perfectly fine to use a web app for your UI. What's not OK is to bundle Chrome and Node in your app.
And backups. With 1Password 8, you have no choice but to upload everything to their cloud. And if you don't trust their backups online, and want to follow the 1-2-3 rule you have to spend a lot of time finding the local cache 1Password keeps so you can make a backup by syncing a folder, or use the export feature which doesn't create a perfect mirror of what is stored in 1Password when it comes to tags, links, documents
I can understand why, say, a text editor in Electron might be frustrating. But in the case of 1Password, I spend barely time in the app itself so I’m really not bothered about speed.
I’m bothered about security - it’s the reason I use 1Password. I’m bothered about pricing. I’m bothered about support across different operating systems. I’m bothered about features that make adoption easier. How are these things affected?
That said, performance becomes a consideration with any app that gets frequent use — one Electron app isn’t too bad, but when you’re running multiple it piles up and starts to turn your machine into a ball of tar, especially if you already have a bunch of browser tabs. This is particularly relevant on RAM limited machines… your 32GB+ RAM workstation isn’t going to sweat it, but your 8GB MacBook Air sure will.
Atom (my current daily driver) and Visual Studio Code are both Electron apps and are plenty fast.