I think we are all throwing wrong questions at wrong entities. What we should ask is what the hell is going on and what is forcing everyone to implement backdoors in this organized manners.
"Apple's earnings for Greater China in Q2 2021 were up 87.5% from this time last year, to $17.7 billion. During its latest earnings call, Apple has announced dramatically increased revenues from Greater China for the three months ending March, 2021."
China has cracked down hard on domestic Internet companies over the past few weeks (deliberately crushing their tech stock market to rein in these companies and enforce governmental data surveillance/control). They're not going to leave Apple out.
Apple literally cannot lose that market. Its market cap would be halved. Saying they're going after child abuse in the US using a new algorithm is the perfect cover for gradual entry into enabling mass surveillance for China. No one can argue with the child abuse use case, but there will be plenty of consternation when this is used to scan for messages critical of Xi and the boys.
I don't really see how anybody could expect something different, specially here.
I still don't see the why though. It seems obvious to me that nothing is to be expected from corporations, other than a hopefully nice product at a reasonable price. Anything other than that sounds like wishful thinking to my ears, but I might be philosophically wrong.
Any good deeds a company happens to do, is for publicity and helping sales.
As pointed out this feature isn't even being launched in China.
But sorry to derail your narrative: China are the bad guys and all bad things are because of china.
Source?
As stated in the article Apple have said it is US only and will be switched on country by country… so surely if this was “BeCAusE ChIna!!!” It’d be switched on there first right?
[0] https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/09/apple-csam-faq/?_gl=1*l17q2t*....
> so surely if this was “BeCAusE ChIna!!!” It’d be switched on there first right?
Is all of your comments on here arguments?
Even if it was launched globally it didn’t at all invalidate my point. They would ban the entire App in question, not back door it. See Facebook/Twitter as a well known example.
Literally no one is saying this. You're getting incredibly sensitive over a regime that just thwarted investigation into a pandemic that has killed more than 1 million people and making irrational arguments to defend it.
"hey would ban the entire App in question, not back door it. See Facebook/Twitter as a well known example."
Ban *which* app?? The iPhone is not an "app" LOL. It's a hardware device with both software and hardware privacy constraints antithetical to the Chinese government's desire for pervasive surveillance.
Apple is gradually shedding its hardcore privacy stance to retain its fastest growing market. It's not difficult to see if you take off your "ANYTHING BAD ABOUT CHINA IS RACIST!!" goggles.
> China are evil, and that is the reason These pure US companies do bad things
China (the gov) is evil.
> is the reason These pure US companies do bad things
The companies are not pure. China certain does things to coerce them them to do bad things that wouldn't otherwise do. Some things are very bad. Some things aren't bad inherently, but are very unlike apple. Examples:
[1] Hong Kong app removal
[2] iCloud CN being run by another company.
> They would ban the entire App in question, not back door it
China already does this, except it's a phone not an app. They already monitor in-flight data [3], so likely not a huge concern for them, but considering the monitoring they do, why wouldn't this be a nice perk for them. Personally, i doubt that china required apple to do this since they already get what they want. I'm sure they'll love to (ab)use this though. I'm confident that a government somewhere wants this (new UK/EU anti-e2ee laws?).
China can't ban the iPhone, apple actually has that much political power. They are a huge poster child of chinese manufacturing power. Every time a senator asks tim cook to move manufacturing stateside and he says that only china is capable, it pumps china up.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/technology/apple-hong-kon...
[2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351
[3] https://citizenlab.ca/2019/07/cant-picture-this-2-an-analysi...
Then we agree. That is exactly what I said.
Re Chinese gov is evil - ra ra ra.
No they aren’t. Well no more than any other country. They just see the world and their place in it differently to you. But they haven’t invaded anyone since Ghengis Khan … yet they’ve been invaded by most of their neighbours and most of the American and European powers. In that context their view and action looks tempered, not evil.
You’re so right. For instance, the Chinese government sees that nothing of importance happened in Tiananman square in 1989 while the rest of the world sees a massacre.
Seems as though you’re the one feeding on a heap of freshmen-year college cultural equality propaganda.
Really? Chinese citizens don't use their iPhone cameras to store photos locally? They only use WeChat to take pictures and store them? Gee, you should tell Apple AND Tencent this! It would dramatically shift their product development path.
Where did Apple Messages come into play? What does that have to do with locally stored photos?
"This feature isn't even being launched in China" -- yup. Apple has definitely never launched a feature first in the US then rolled it out worldwide.
"But sorry to derail your narrative: China are the bad guys and all bad things are because of china."
Who said that? Seems more like you've got a bias to apologize for the regime than anyone else has a bias to impugn it.
That’s why I mentioned Messages… because that’d be the alternative.
Literally the OP said: “it’s China that is causing Apple to do this”… so in answer to your question: the OP.
Not apologising for the Chinese government. Do you call Biden administration a regime?
None of that makes sense. Why would using the system only to target child abuse in the US make people change their mind about using it against political dissidents?
If you go for a thing directly you show your hand and get a lot of backlash.
Case in point: the British NHS (because we can see it happening in real time).
Add the capability to do something for a good reason (NHS spending should be more efficient; we need approved suppliers // do it for the children) in order to make the further move of what you really want without much resistance (privatise parts of the NHS; eventually much of the NHS // back door every terrorist, dissident, detractor)
In this context, it is exactly how politics work, and you have described shifting the Overton window or even floating the Trial balloon.
re: NHS. The case you are making doesn't fit your reasoning. As for privatisation in general, the current government is following a very basic rulebook:
1. Sabotage/kneecap an institution/ 2. Offer a solution involving cronies/ 3. Achievement Unlocked
1. For example, some Tory MP's (the elite that make the decisions for the plebs) don't need to rely on NHS for healthcare exclusively, hence they have a callous attitude towards it. They deploy all manner of subterfuge, replete with claps, lies and smiles, to starve out a public service funded by taxpayers.
2. The ultimate goal; offer a solution to the problem you manufactured (1) and share the spoils amongst yourselves, by awarding/rewarding and looking after each other's interests.
3. Self-explanatory.
Scenario 1: Apple announces Orwellian system to thwart child abuse in the United States.
Scenario 2: Apple announces Orwellian system to thwart Chinese dissidence.
Which one sounds more palatable to you? To the world?
Apple *has* to take an orthogonal approach to giving China the surveillance capacity it desires. It can't openly enable a regime that just covered up and obfuscated investigation into perhaps the greatest human tragedy of our generation.
Apple wouldn't unlock a single iPhone for the FBI in a terrorism investigation... but it will deploy mass on-device privacy invasion for people who aren't even suspects to thwart child abuse?
Ask yourself: What changed?
If you believe Apple suddenly shifted their privacy stance on a whim, and isn't being subtly pressured by the Chinese government to develop new means of device access and control, I don't know what to tell you...
Your claim is that somehow scenario one makes scenario two suddenly palatable. Like people will say "oh, they ran an allegedly limited surveillance program for the US, so who cares if they run an unlimited one for China?"
>Apple wouldn't unlock a single iPhone for the FBI in a terrorism investigation..
Apple willingly offered to help unlock that iPhone. They're methods were blocked due to police mishandling of the device, and they were unwilling to pay to develop a backdoor for their own product.
>If you believe Apple suddenly shifted their privacy stance on a whim, and isn't being subtly pressured by the Chinese government to develop new means of device access and control,
This thread is about the FBI getting Apple to continue allowing easier access to devices. You brought up the example of the FBI trying to force Apple to allow them to access their devices. And the most recent event is Apple's surveillance of American devices. Yet somehow, you think the only possible reason Apple may be changing their stance is China.
2. Apple has always been less pro-privacy than you claim.
3. Everything mentioned here involves the US wanting more access. You claim that is proof of Chinese influence, rather than the obvious US influence.
I'm not seeing a multitude of spelling or grammar mistakes either, though I will admit that one sentence was poorly constructed. And I see a wrong "they're" I blaim on auto complete, though still my fault.
I see what you did there. Touché.
China could also ban manufacturing there. That would suck for AAPL too.