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Comment by joezydeco | Hacker News Reader

Nothing in the story says he was flagged for deeper interviewing because of his involvement with Bitcoin. He told the agent he was saying for two months on $600 USD and, making an assumption here, no credit cards or anything else to supplement his stay.

How do we know he wasn't flagged under a different rule, such as "$100 a week in the US? Maybe he's taking a temporary job. Let's look further". Border agents hate finding out you've come under a tourist visa when really you've come to work.

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I think you're confused about the definition of befuddle.

be·fud·dle

1. To confuse; perplex.

2. To stupefy with or as if with alcoholic drink.

Customs agents didn't flag him for his involvement in bitcoin; they didn't understand what it was and how he could possibly fund his trip with it.

Or they didn't believe it was as good as cash, which is kind of a fair assessment. The guy he was going to meet might not have had the cash after all, and without a buyer, the Bitcoins have no intrinsic value. Saying that you have a suitcase full of collectable pins that you intend to trade with a guy for $1500 would probably not get you into the US either.

If you really had pins for trade, you'd have to declare them on the customs form (you'd be importing them), and selling them would likely count as commerce not valid for a tourist visa.

IIRC, he was on a Visa Waiver, so I don't think that applies.

You can only get a visa waiver if you fall within the requirements of a tourist visa, plus additional restrictions. And visa waiver entry still requires that you fill out a customs form.

If you are carrying more than $10,000 worth of securities or cash, you have to declare that. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with owning more than $10,000 worth of securities and liquidating them while you're visiting the US.

Here's the official government documentation on the matter:

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/tr...

"If you receive in the US, currency ... exceeding $10,0000 at one time ... you must file Form 105."

But everyone entering the United States has to fill out a customs declaration that lists the value of goods being brought into the country.

If you have $9,999 in your wallet and a bank account with $1,000,000,000,000, though, you don't have to mention cash on your customs declaration form.

What if you have US$10,000 in your bitcoin wallet on your laptop? Is that the same as US$10,000 worth of collectable pins in your suitcase, or the same as US$10,000 worth of code/IP on your laptop (which I can't imagine anyone declaring in customs)?

What if the bitcoin wallet isnt on your laptop but in the cloud?

Then it's the same as any other asset you have access to but isn't liquid, so it's not an interesting question when you're talking about how much you can take through customs without declaring it.

The visa waiver can be for tourism or for business. It has two checkboxes. When I visit the US, it's for work meetings, so I check business.

I DO know what bitcoin is, and I don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with it. Doesn't seem like the top of the list for liquid assets, i.e. what you need when travelling. Part of their job is to make sure you can fund your trip. This guy couldn't, from a variety of reasonable interpretations.

There are places where you can sell your bitcoins for worthless pieces of paper with pictures of dead US politician on them.

It's the same process that makes pork bellies exchangeable for bits of German automotive engineering

You genuinely don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with bitcoins?

Or are you exaggerating to make a point?

I think it is conceivable that he could fund his trip by bartering for the majority of his food and/or lodging using bitcoins. That is, it is a possibility that there are people in the United States who will accept bitcoins in return for providing food and/or lodging. And presumably as a "digital currency guru" he would be able to identify those people and effect payment with the agreed upon medium.

He even has a fallback option of cash if there is something he cannot acquire through the use of this bitcoins.

Indeed, I exaggerate a bit. But I think @praptak above expresses the issue admirably. It's not a question of possibility so much as one of trust, and it's a customs agent's job to be wary.

I had cash in my office ready to exchange for Bitcoin when Nefario was to come to Seattle. It's no different than trading at MtGox.

Please take into account that this is a kind of story that the agents hear all the time. "Really, officer, I've got this cousin who owes me 3 grand and has the cash ready." To them it doesn't matter that the famous(#) Bitcoin is involved here.

(#) Among techies only and even here the discussions about it being a Ponzi scheme are lively.

The Visa Waiver program allows "business" travel to the US. I think Nefario's planned activities are allowed:

"Independent research, no salary/income from a US based source, or benefit to US institution."

Indeed. The key to dealing with the US government, in my experience, is telling them what they want to hear. When asked, "how much money do you have access to", just do the BTC to USD conversion in your head and quote that number. They are not going to check your bank balance while you're in line at immigration.

The best part is, you are not even lying.

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