Out of control and rising: why Bitcoin has Nigeria’s government in a panic
theguardian.com
theguardian.com
If you argue that not too many people have the same bank, you're also arguing that not too many people get free transactions.
Bitcoin and other cryptos fix this scam and enable people to not lose 5 to 90% of their money per year to inflation. It’s really not hard to understand and why hacker news can’t wrap their heads around why crypto has utility is a lack of awareness of how the average government operates.
On the other hand, us little people should support anything that gives the average person a fighting chance against the rich and powerful.
https://twitter.com/ummjackson/status/1415353986392072196?re...
I tend to agree. There are legitimate use cases, but overall it's unclear whether "the little guys" are really the main use case or how much the average Nigerian (or anyone else except the ultra wealthy) might benefit.
Now if your point is that some wealthy elites want to take power away from other wealthy elites, I'd say this is a more accurate take on the situation. For example, being able to circumvent taxes, or being able to manipulate markets on a global scale.
I'd be shocked if most people in Nigeria even have a personal computer and reliable internet. That's how impoverished most of them are.
Also, it's not about getting rich. It's about surviving when the government has all power to freeze your bank accounts, inflate the currency, etc.
Answer: "While Nigeria's mobile penetration rate is lower than developed markets, it is higher than the average across sub-Saharan Africa, standing at around 50% as of 2018, and estimated to rise to 130 million or about 60%-65% of the total population by 2025."
Also: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Which, in this case, is to say that it may be that "there is no real proof that this has brought mostly normal people in nigeria out of poverty." But did you RTFA? It talks about how crypto is helping normal people. So there isn't evidence against this idea either. Maybe we should try to find out, rather than be dismissive.
I did a little research on this for a job last year and internet access/mobile phone ownership numbers are far higher than I expected. Mobile payments are already a very common form of transaction in Africa. The Gates Foundation mentioned that one of the big issues with their current infrastructure is middle-men fees when talking about remittances between African countries through to mobile credit, so crypto is actually a strong candidate to improve that area too.
Why not read the actual Twitter thread and see if the argument has merit? Or engage the summary that the GP brought into the thread instead of pretending the only relevant point in play is the authority of Palmer?
And finally, why not acknowledge that maybe someone who created a coin that took off might have some worthwhile insight?
Yes, crypto is being manipulated and distorted by the wealthy and powerful. It's sad to see. But it's still beneficial to the average person to have other options outside of the current system.
And Mr. Palmer is out of crypto. Good for him. And the solution to reign in fiat-based crony capitalism is what?
I 100% agree with the premise that the ultra-wealthy are finally getting on board with crypto and will pollute it with the same manipulation they've used in other markets. But that still doesn't mean it can't be used by the average person to build wealth if done correctly.
The average person really doesn't need many of the use cases that crypto provides, as of today. Most of the "normal people use cases" have yet to materialize. I really struggle with this narrative, because it just doesn't reflect any sense of reality. I own crypto, I heavily participate in the space, and yet I don't get people that think a mother of 3 needs to own Eth in any practical sense.
It's this narrative of "rich western citizens" talking about "real world use cases" that completely diverge from their day to day which is the ultimate irony. Think of the poor Africans! Said no one from Coinbase or Binance. Think of the use cases! Said the wealthy SWE speculatively trading shitcoins, x5 leverage to the gills.
There are real world use cases, but likely if you're posting here on your macbook, they do not apply to you. People don't give a shit about venezuela or Nigeria, it's just greed.
Provisions were added into the bill that would require "know your customer" type requirements and taxation of crypto exchanges but were written so poorly that the requirements could be extrapolated to crypto miners, staking, etc.
This is what happens when people who don't understand the technology in the first place try to write legislation at the last minute to insert into a bill that has nothing to do with crypto.
Amendments have been proposed to try and clarify the bill, but there are multiple amendments that are "worse" or "better" for crypto. Guess which one Janet Yellen is pushing? (after receiving millions from big banks for "speaking engagements."
I don't think that I have a chance in heaven or hell to navigate a completely opaque ecosystem where wash trading sets the value minute to minute and the mechanisms of realizing that value are run to make money off the realisation.
And what, exactly, do you think you're fighting?
Inflation or inflationary policies? Places to park money that are better than bits or gold have existed for a long time.
Surveillance? An indelible ledger has its downsides here.
Technology is more often a magnifier of existing human dynamics rather than a qualitative change. Especially one that seeks to replace existing tech. If you think it's going to produce a fundamental change, why is this different?
Well, we'll need a lot of help from the likes of Elon Musk and Jack Dorsey, but it's totally all about helping the little guy.
If you don't agree that's fine. Don't buy. If other people buy and have a different opinion it doesn't hurt you at all.
What we're saying is that having an alternative to fiat is some people's only hope when the government can close your accounts, inflate the currency, etc.
Further, like encryption, cryptocurrencies are not something that you can ban in an effective way no matter how desperately you want to, so you will just have to deal with it.
The most powerful people will always have privacy and be above laws. The only way you can equalise it is to give some of those abilities to the little people
And it's submission on HN three weeks ago for further discussion on it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27874794
Ive been paying for a lot of contractor work internationally with stablecoins over the last several years
It annoys me how much Tether is often people’s only stablecoin option at the exchanges in their country, and that education is much lower on how to do stuff onchain without exchanges (so they could accept many more assets and convert to whatever they wanted)
But its way better than western union/paypal/wise/revolut/wire, or when it’s not better it’s nice it’s an option
even the heralded “SEPA” system cross border in Europe is not as reliable as it is a patch work of multiple systems (Instant SEPA, normal SEPA, etc). Ie. A SEPA transaction through Wise/Revolut could be fairly instant or it could be 7 actual days with a customer support query and fingers crossed.
It is better for people to get the asset and convert it in their country with the banking partners or traders that work well for them. Or just invest/spend with that asset alone because it is equally (or more) valid earnings as fiat to many people.
What you might be missing is that many of us arent acquiring crypto at the time to then send it to someone, we already have holdings in crypto because we earn in it too. I may have a few hundred dollars in stablecoins, just like I may also have a few hundred dollars in my Venmo or Wise or Revolut account. I periodically have liquid investments in crypto assets. So when I am choosing how to pay anyone a large amount and they don't accept credit card because they arent really a merchant but just good at something, then its really easy to just say ok give me your wallet address and the liquidity is nearly instantly under their control. Much more practical when you already have it.
so its basically time saving, and what is essentially happening is that higher scrutiny, bank error prone international wires are converted into domestic payments for international commerce and circumvents the interchange bank issues.
Those in developing nations might use crypto to avoid remittance fees, or due to increased accessibility. If the recipient doesn’t have a bank account, you can’t do a wire transfer. If the recipient has a phone, they can get an app to facilitate a crypto transfer.
And all banks have a random interface for sending wires. Some don’t even have a way for you to initiate a wire online.
Crypto is unlimited unlimited! Love it!
So yeah unlimited amounts and faster and 24/7 are available over crypto networks.
I’m not sure what people want to read, its like they are waiting for a citable source about something thats just available.
Plus, money has been coming out of Tether and into other stablecoins and what is happening with Bitcoin's price? Yeah, up.
Which studies are you referring to?
https://www.coindesk.com/whats-going-on-with-tether
https://voxeu.org/article/stable-coins-dont-inflate-crypto-m...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01651...