Comment by jstx1 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jstx1 | Hacker News Reader

I've thought about this and since I'm not that attracted to any of the options, I'm not that interested in retiring early. It's possible to have a good job that doesn't overwork you and some spare time outside of that for time with your family and for hobbies - financial independence isn't a prerequisite. And as long as that's the case, I'm not interesting in retirement at any age. Maybe my health will deteriorate to the point where I can't work but then none of the options look that appealing. Or maybe I'll change my mind as I get older. But until then I'm FWRN (financially whatever, retire never). Sure, I'll still save and invest and having more money is great, I just don't see financial independence as some milestone that will change anything for me and that's why I don't pursue it aggressively.

There was a recent post here that made a lot of sense to me - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28070769

I guess the more positive way to express this is - what's stopping you from doing any of these things now and why do you need to wait until FI? Retirement seems like a very roundabout way to achieve the goal of... going for a run and reading SICP.

The point of FI is to eliminate an entire class of concerns.

Family member gets disabled? You get disabled? Spouse wants to change cities? You get burned out? You find an exciting (but less paying) opportunity? You can pursue these without asking permission.

You don't need to stop working, of course, but you could. Being in a position where you can't sucks.

I think in this case it's important to clarify what we mean by financial independence. Being able to address emergencies and setbacks is a very different level of wealth than having accumulated enough that you can live only on the interest. I'm not arguing against the former obviously. I'm saying that the latter looks like an arbitrary and somewhat meaningless goal to me personally.

Also, the setbacks that you might experience vary a lot. You gave an example of suddenly becoming disabled - in that case you might find that all of the formulas that you've used to compute that you've reached FI don't work anymore because your expenses have increased dramatically. So you were financially independent before but now suddenly you aren't anymore? Then maybe you were never financially independent in the first place. (There was a great story about this on HN - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26543527)

That's another problem with the whole FI(RE) movement - it pretends to have quantified something that can't be quantified by just making a lot of assumptions about your future needs and wants, the state of the world, the stock market, inflation etc. And when those assumptions are questioned, the defending argument boils down to "having more money is better". Which of course I can't disagree with. Just don't pretend that you've achieved something that you haven't by claiming to be financially independent.

Sure, it depends on your threat model. Typically FI means living expenses < (assets * withdrawal rate). If being disabled is in your threat model, include long-term care insurance in your living expenses. Note that you aren't withdrawing just the interest, assets appreciate and you can withdraw from that ever-growing principal.

Psychologically, some prefer to not have a leaky boat, than to be in a boat and constantly expected to bail water. ("Oh, I can rest for a bit, then I better get back to bailing!").

Yes, you can hit a rock, or a pirate, but the goal is the expected case (95%) being "floating, not sinking".

I wouldn't call myself waiting until FI. I do spend a disciplined amount of time on a daily basis with things that I've mentioned I love doing. But as I become more experienced, the responsiblities of job demand a lot of attention + time, that it's hard to mentally switch off / say no to extra work. Basically this leads to long times before I complete a book / course.

But broadly about the "stuff I wish I could do", I think it would require a lot of personal exploration / life experience / reading and much more to know what I want to do and how I can do(if I could). This is defintely not possible with a full time job(same reasons as above) IMO.

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