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Comment by epanchin | Hacker News Reader

The new system is overkill for iCloud, which Apple already scans. The obvious conclusion is Apple will start to scan photos kept on device, even where iCloud is not used.

Very smart people are not getting this wrong.

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>> The obvious conclusion is Apple will start to scan photos kept on device, even where iCloud is not used.

Wrong [1]. It's even in the first line of the document which you apparently didn't even read:

  CSAM Detection enables Apple to accurately identify and report iCloud users who store
  known Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM) in their iCloud Photos accounts

This doesn't mean I'm supporting their new "feature".

1. https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...

nah. it means that they don’t scan it yet.

also by reading that doc and pointing to it means you trust apple.

i used to trust apple when they were peddling their privacy marketing stuff. not anymore.

OK so let's all lose our shit over things that haven't happened.

> The obvious conclusion is Apple will start to scan photos kept on device, even where iCloud is not used.

Why is this the obvious conclusion?

Partly it falls under the supposition of "if they can, they will". It's also suggested when they tout that they are going to start blurring "naked" pictures, of any kind, sent to children under 14. Which means they need some kind of tech to detect "naked" pictures, locally, across encrypted channels, in order to block them.

In theory, this is different tech than CSAM, which is supposed to checking hashes against a global database, vs determining the "nakedness" score of an arbitrary picture.

But, scan them once, scan them all, on your phone. The details start to matter less and less.

Also, since they already scanning all of the photos up on iCloud already, why would they need to have it put locally on the phone?

Finally, I know that Apple scans photos on my device, because that's how I get those "memories" of Furry Friends with vignettes of my cats. I don't even use iCloud. (To be clear, I love this feature. Send me movies of my cats once a week.)

>They already scanning all of the photos up on iCloud already

I can't find a source for this. Do you happen to have one?

It seems to me that Apple doesn't want to host CSAM on their servers, so they're scanning your device so that if it does get uploaded, they can remove it and then ban you.

They're not scanning all photos on iCloud, as far as I can tell.

> Partly it falls under the supposition of "if they can, they will".

Hm. But there are many millions of things Apple could do, but haven’t, because it would hurt their business model. So how would what you are proposing they will do help their business model?

> Which means they need some kind of tech to detect "naked" pictures, locally, across encrypted channels, in order to block them.

I know you know this is the case, but to make it clear for anyone reading: Apple is not blocking nude pictures in the kids filter. It’s blurring and giving a message. Again I ask: why would using this technology on non-nude stuff benefit Apple?

Are we worried about Apple or are we worried about the government forcing Apple to do things that this technology enables?

Apple doesn't "scan" iCloud. Not sure what you're talking about. Generally everything in iCloud is E2E encrypted, with the exception of iCloud Backups, where Apple holds onto a decryption key and will use it to comply with subpoenas. But nothing is "scanned," and if you don't use iCloud backup, Apple can't see your data.

iCloud Photos aren’t E2E encrypted, but it’s unlikely they’re scanned for CSAM today because Apple generates effectively 0 references to NCMEC annually.

I also believe Apple doesn't really want to scan your photos on their servers. I believe their competitors do, and they consider this compromise (scan on device with hashes) is their way of complying with CSAM demands while still maintaining their privacy story.

Yes. Scope creep is much easier when implemented as scanning on plaintext data.

It's too late to edit my post, but you're right. iCloud Photos are not E2E encrypted, my misunderstanding.

Apple does not already scan iCloud.

Not sure why this got downvoted. This is correct and very thoroughly documented.

The meme tides have turned against logic on this topic.

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