Edit: I'm talking about this https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8DYv9hWUAksPO8?format=jpg&name=...
1. I reserve the right to change my mind as things are revealed/developed.
America, not Europe. Or Japan.
I don't actually know what the law is in regard to sex offense. I'm simply explaining what I understood from the previous comment.
In the US, maybe (not sure if this is even true in all states), but not in most other countries in the world, where a 16-year-old is not a child, nudity is not a problem, and "sex offender registries" don't exist.
The US is entitled to make its own (crazy, ridiculous, stupid) laws, but we shouldn't let them impose those on the rest of us.
Hence, strong E2E encryption designed to prevent unjust government oppression, without backdoors.
Parents should talk to their teenagers about sex regardless of if they get a notification on their phone telling them they missed the boat.
Some people might disagree with you.
There are people out there who are revolted by the "obviously okay" case of 2 fully-consenting teenagers sending each other nude pics, without any coercion, social pressure, etc.
Not to mention all the gray areas and "obviously not okay" combinations of ages, circumstances, number of people involved, etc.
If parents don't like this feature, they can buy a lineage OS type phone. If parents do they will buy this type of phone for their kids.
That’s terrifying.
"if a child attempts to send an explicit photo, they’ll be warned before the photo is sent. Parents can also receive a message if the child chooses to send the photo anyway." - https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/05/new-apple-technology-will-...
So this gives kids a heads up that they shouldn't send it, and that if they do, their parent will be notified. So that's me in case you are not reading this clearly.
Now yes, if someone is SENDING my child porn from a non-child account, I as the parent will be notified. Great.
If this is terrifying - that's a bit scary! HN is going a bit off the rails these days.
Allow me to make a prediction - users are going to like this - it will INCREASE their trust in apple in terms of a company trying to keep them and their family safe.
I just looked it up - Apple is literally the #1 brand globally supposedly in 2021. So they are doing the right thing in customers minds so far.
Neither participant will have the opportunity to be warned in advance and avoid getting flagged.
Yes, android users sending porn to kids will be flagged by apple devices if the kid has one. My point, parents may like this.
This is an absolute falsehood. Literally a total flat lie. Have people not read the paper?
Apple does not give android phone users the child porn. They block it on device. So no, it will not be the other children's parents who will decide it will be me if my child is sending it.
And if someone sends my child a photo of child porn etc, then apple will block it and will notify me and that is also fine - if you are sending my child child porn - then I have a right to know - and I will pursue you aggressively as almost any parent will I think.
The idea that apple is doing something wrong here is ridiculous. The lying about what apple is doing is also ridiculous.
Current society is pushing a lot of adult behavior into kids, and they don’t always understand the consequences of their actions.
Parents can’t inform their kids if they aren’t aware.
The government also wants to know about potential terrorist attacks. Why not scan all our phones for all kinds of data to protect innocent people from being killed by mass shootings?
That's nonsense. I'm saying that and I'm deeply locked in Apple's ecosystem. Which is pissing me off.
Why not inform your children of the potential consequences when giving them a phone? Why do you need Apple to notify you of inappropriate behavior before having that conversation? That's like waiting until you find a pregnancy test in the garbage before talking to your children about sex.
Furthermore, if Apple is deliberately, by design resending them to additional people beyond the addressee, as a feature it markets to the people that will be receiving them, that seems to...raise problematic issues.
> In these new processes, if an account held by a child under 13 wishes to send an image that the on-device machine learning classifier determines is a sexually explicit image, a notification will pop up, telling the under-13 child that their parent will be notified of this content. If the under-13 child still chooses to send the content, they have to accept that the “parent” will be notified, and the image will be irrevocably saved to the parental controls section of their phone for the parent to view later. For users between the ages of 13 and 17, a similar warning notification will pop up, though without the parental notification.
This specifically says that it will not notify the parents of teens, as GGP claims. So GP is right that Apple isn't doing what GGP claimed. However I still think you might be right that GP didn't read the full article and just got lucky. Lol.
If someone sends nude pics there is still no way to tell that it's a nude pic.
The other part is on-device scanning for nude pics a child is intending to send using machine learning and securely notifying the child, and then parents within the family account. The alert that the kids get by itself will probably be enough to stop a lot of them from sending the pic in the first place.
This sounds like a feature I'd like
But if I'm picking a phone for my kid, and my choice is this (even if imperfect) and the HN freedomFone - it's going to be Apple. We'll see what other parents decide.
It's easily to design solution that will work around and allow sending either criminals or kids nude pictures under the radar, e.g.
1) Someone will eventually write web app that will use webrtc or similar for snapping nude picture (so that no picture is stored on device) 2) encrypting those photos on the server 3) sending the link to this nude image that will be rendered in html canvas (again no image will be stored on device) 4) link to web app that will rendered image will be behind captcha so that automated bots cannot scan it
Now do we want to go into the rabbit hole to 'protect the kids' and make Apple buildin camera drivers that will filter all video stream for nudity?
Sometimes otherwise good, smart kids, with good parents, can be caught up by predation. It isn't always as simple as making sure the kid is educated; they'll still be young, they'll still be immature (< 13!), and it will sometimes be possible to manipulate them. I'm not saying that what Apple is doing is a good answer, it probably isn't, but it's an answer to a genuine felt need.
I won't use my own kids devices as information weapons against them. I will teach them what kind of information weapons they are however.
Not that there aren't some really lousy parents out there.
I suspect/hope the exclusion parenting style (you don't get a phone because I don't trust you with it or the rest of the world with you) and the guidance parenting style (you get a phone but I'm going to make sure to talk to you about responsibility and about lousy people in the world, and I want to know if something happens so we can keep talking) both far outweigh this sort of proposed 'entrapment' parenting style.
A phone is a tool. You start slowly. Do you give a 3 year old a chainsaw or machine gun right away? No.
I grew up and learned to shoot. I started with a bb gun, then a 22lr rife etc. You start with stuff less dangerous.
A phone potentially exposes children to all sorts of crap.
It's not some horrible thing to start slowly with something a bit locked down (and yes, blocking porn is part of that), then it opens up as they get mature.
This conversation has really made me look at the HN community in a different way. I've worked with kids in lots of contexts and with parents etc - the HN feelings about apple's efforts in this area are going to be somewhat extreme outliers relative to population as a whole and particularly vis a vis parents.
And yes, a phone - and the web and computing in general - are information weapons. Same as a knife or a hammer they have utility too which is great and also something to be lauded. But dangers must be recognised.
I won't trust Apple or Google to draw the line in the sand for me. Both the kid and myself will know what the expectations are and be talking about it the whole way through growing up.
> Messages uses on-device machine learning to analyze image attachments and determine if a photo is sexually explicit. The feature is designed so that Apple does not get access to the messages.
I suspect a lot of how people feel about this will come down to whether they have kids or not.
That includes secrecy in private communications and OFC privacy within their own data in smartphones.
I know several parents in just my extended circle alone that would welcome the feature, so... I just don't think I agree with this statement. These parents already resort to other methods to try and monitor their kids but it's increasingly (or already) impossible to do so.
I suppose we should also take issue with Apple letting parents watch their kids location...?