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WTF happened to Australia? I was under the impression it was a "take no shit" kind of place. It seems like they've become some sort of clown world police state. The Government response is completely over the top considering the situation.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

Is it because socialized medicine can't cope with a surge in illness (Canada was another example) exposing the poor state of socialized healthcare after spending 10's of billions a year in tax payer funds. Somehow the USA with it's private system was able to scale and accommodate massive amounts of patients without collapse while these other countries were invoking the worlds longest lock downs and basically shutting down everything to try and save a healthcare system that barely functions under normal conditions (Canada as an example, visit any Toronto Hospital).

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> Is it because socialized medicine can't cope with a surge in illness (Canada was another example) exposing the poor state of socialized healthcare after spending 10's of billions a year in tax payer funds. Somehow the USA with it's private system was able to scale and accommodate massive amounts of patients without collapse while these other countries were invoking the worlds longest lock downs and basically shutting down everything to try and save a healthcare system that barely functions under normal conditions (Canada as an example, visit any Toronto Hospital).

I don't think the data supports the idea that the US healthcare system handled the pandemic better than socialized healthcare systems.

Hmm... US covid deaths per 1M population, 1864.51. Canada covid deaths per 1M population, 707.17. Not a favourable metric for the States. Parts of the US seem to be coping with covid by ignoring it, which fortunately is limited to Alberta so far here.

I've lived in both countries... The health systems work in both of them, although you have to have good insurance in the States to be able to say that.

To be fair here, Canada has applied certain strict and in some senses possibly absurd measures at COVID control but nothing like the half baked police state nonsense that Australia is applying both internally and along its borders.

As for the U.S. Overall, despite how many others here comment based more on kneejerk emotional dislike of the U.S. government than substantive argument, i'd agree with what you mention: the U.S did scale surprisingly well considering its enormous population, numerous autonomous internal jurisdictions (the states) and diverse social dynamics. Of course it has many deaths, but for a country of 330 million people that is to be expected.

In terms of death ratio compared to many other countries, the U.S hasn't been among the very worst, and has managed to avoid disasters of both the economic and clinical saturation kind (whether by luck or administrative aptitude, or a mix of both across different states) decently enough. That it managed to not do worse than almost 3 dozen other countries without resorting to the kind of draconian bullshit that Australia's government is trying to normalize is a point in favor of the United States

What? As a resident I think they aren't doing enough. The reason we haven't had much of a problem is because we've been strict. The problems we are having in NSW that I am currently living through now are because they didn't lockdown fast enough and hard enough to deal with the delta strain.

Socialized healthcare isn't the problem. We aren't trying to save the healthcare system we are trying to save lives and stop people getting a disease which often has permanent effects if they do survive it.

Now aside from our COVID response we've become a clown world police state I'll give you that. Our laws about being able to press software engineers into becoming spies for example, or our stance on encryption, or the way the NSW police keep strip searching everyone all the fucking time.

But to suggest we are doing too much to prevent the spread of COVID seems fucking insane to me

It's all about control. Sadly people I still talk to down there think it's for their own good. I'm ranting but the government is extremely corrupt and just obviously incompetent. And that's not even related to the literal rapes and sexual abuse that has occurred in the actual parliament building (by government employees, who mysteriously are never prosecuted). The current acting leader of the house "allegedly" anally raped a 17 year old and has had no repercussions this far

> WTF happened to Australia? I was under the impression it was a "take no shit" kind of place. It seems like they've become some sort of clown world police state. The Government response is completely over the top considering the situation.

It’s because scotty from marketing is very literally worse than useless, wants to appear strong, and visibly brutalising minorities makes the lib and nat electorate very happy.

We've kept our numbers low because of the "over the top" reactions you're talking about. You'd be correct that our case fatality rate is higher, but that's not due to the hospitals struggling, it's because out numbers are so low that an outbreak in a few aged care homes seriously skews the data.

Also, US deaths per 100k: 187.3, AU deaths per 100k: 3.6

They are going for the zero COVID strategy. Not that I condone it, but the whole idea is to keep their numbers as they are in your link.

> Somehow the USA with it's private system was able to scale and accommodate massive amounts of patients without collapse while these other countries were invoking the worlds longest lock downs and basically shutting down everything to try and save a healthcare system that barely functions under normal conditions (Canada as an example, visit any Toronto Hospital).

I am not aware of any collapse faced by the public healthcare system in my country (Austria).

They’re stopping australian citizen living in other countries from leaving.

How’s stopping Jack and Sheila from going back home in not australia doing anything for covid in australia? Unlike scotty they’re not leaving for two weeks on the seaside or ”stopping off” at the pub on a business trip, they’re going back to their job and obligations.

It’s also completely untrue, the federal governmemt has bungled everything so far.

> How’s stopping Jack and Sheila from going back home in not australia doing anything for covid in australia?

I don't know the exact intentions of the Australian government, but the rationale as outlined in the article is that it stops the "go abroad - catch COVID - come back" cycle at the first link.

Again, I don't personally condone it.

> the rationale as outlined in the article is that it stops the "go abroad - catch COVID - come back" cycle at the first link.

These are not people going on holidays, they're not going to do that, which is why the rule did not apply to them.

The article explains that these people had to justify their being residents of other countries to leave without a special authorisation. If you want to "0 COVID" you prevent them from coming back in as you do for non-australian residents, and you prevent australian residents from leaving without authorisation.

> Again, I don't personally condone it.

But you are certainly defending it.

I'm an Australian citizen who has lived in the US for fifteen years.

This law (and others) say that if I want to travel to see my elderly parents in Australia I have to:

1. be fully vaccinated (I am, have been since December) - not too unreasonable 2. quarantine upon my arrival for two weeks (inconvenient, but not unreasonable - unless they are on their deathbed, gravely ill, etc.)

and adds this:

3. am prevented from leaving Australia unless I "prove" that I have permanent residence elsewhere (which makes little sense because as an Australian citizen, whether I do or don't, I'm still entitled, subject to points 1 and 2 above, to return at any time - for the same reason that Australia won't release my superannuation (401k-ish kinda thing) regardless of my residence elsewhere, "because as a citizen, I am entitled to return at any time, so that money needs to stay until the appropriate time").)

Note that they talk about "obtaining exemptions", but there are multiple examples, including one in this article, where the government has stated "charter a plane for your trip, do not fly commercial" in order to obtain the exemption. Which makes one rule for the rich (and you have to be rich to charter a plane in general - even more so when most countries, with the exception of New Zealand, are at least an eight hour jet flight away, so this is not so much "charter a Cessna" as "charter a G450 or Global 6000" - hint, those aircraft are in the _five digit per flight hour_ charter range - Melbourne to LAX is probably a $100,000 flight, at best.

It is a police state. I moved from Singapore to here and I can't even see any difference.

[ ] human rights [ ] press freedom [ ] privacy

It's more or less the same, except taxes here are higher.

I recall Canadians having to wait weeks to maybe book an appointment to get one of the vaccine variant (they wouldn't tell you which one until you showed up in person) while in the US walk-in vaccine appointments were available... at Walmart!

How can they justify the 50+% tax rate to pay for "free" healthcare?

US can "print" world reserve currency at will and borrow from itself without restriction. It isn't surprising that vaccines are so readily available in the US, at the cost of few 10s of billion, that US can just will into existence at any time, they save their entire economy 100s of billions in lost sales. This is why vaccines are free but healthcare is not - healthcare in the US generates 100s of billions per year and keeps people in workforce on both sides - as employees of insurance companies and as employees of other companies that otherwise couldn't afford insurance. Other countries have to actually earn their money to pay for things.

Just get a reserve currency then.

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