Google Co-Founder Larry Page Allowed into New Zealand Despite Closed Border
ndtv.com
ndtv.com
Of course, if someone wants to visit a country for an HCP of their choice they should be allowed to.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-dying-man...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/12410323...
People generally consider it horrifying to forcibly separate parents from minor children, unless it's in the child's interest. "Or else your child doesn't get treatment" counts as force.
Empathy and benefit of the doubt for billionaires who vacation in Fiji and whose kids get a medevac flight to a major city when something goes wrong would look a bit more sane if those were commonly afforded to normal people as well. Which they aren't.
Since this is a medical emergency I would imagine that they would grant this to whoever, not just Page.
>“The day after the application was received, a New Zealand air ambulance staffed by a New Zealand ICU nurse-escort medevaced the child and an adult family member from Fiji to New Zealand,”
https://apnews.com/article/technology-lifestyle-travel-new-z...
Reminder, Sydney is merely 1 hour extra flight time away and borders were wide open in January.
Nobody here would want to endanger the life of a 12 year old and hopefully his child is doing fine now.
It has been reported by the press, several times, he was spending most his time at the remote Island of Tavarua with both a 12 year and another child of 10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tavarua
The main resort there will ask you to sign this waiver who says between other things:
"...I understand that the Island of Tavarua is a remote, undeveloped island. Further, I understand that the Released Parties do not provide medical services and that medical facilities do not exist on the Island of Tavarua. If I am injured, I understand that I will have to be transported to mainland Fiji to receive medical services and that the Released Parties do not provide such transportation..."
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/58f5426737c581de8a8d7...
The main issue is that the NZ government, under the excuse of privacy, did not make it clear if this was really an emergency and his child needed urgent medical care, or just needed medical care not available at Fiji and a billionaire could not be bothered to return back to his country or to Australia who had easier entry requirements, and was roughly at the same distance.
The fact that it was a air medvac that not says much. It was not disclosed if it was an airplane with special medical facilities or just Larry Page private jet. It was only mentioned a request was received January 11, 2021 no comment on how much time it took to approve it and when the flight actually happened.
I am sure any journalist worth it's salt should be able to track easily any medvac Auckland - Fiji flights on 11, 12 or later days. If the flight happened a few days after the approval, then it was just planned medical care not available in Fiji.
If he really loves Fiji so much, maybe he can help donate an Hospital, sounds like they really need it, and its probably pocket change:
"UN's Fiji medical evacuation flight unfair, says human rights advocate" https://www.stuff.co.nz/tarana/125963687/uns-fiji-medical-ev...
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=c8276a&lat=-23.171&lon=...
Returning the next day...
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/?icao=c8276a&lat=-38.872&lon=...
A bit speculative, agreed...for an armchair detective with a brandy on the hand... It matches the only airplane from Air Ambulance companies in NZ, that went out of NZ direction Fiji that day and returned to Auckland the next day from the corresponding direction. ADSB gets lost after a little bit over the ocean so not 100% sure final destination or origin. Really a wonderful place for billionaires to disappear from the common gents.
Willing to wait extra 24 hours instead of flying straight to Australia, doesnt sound like emergency.
Is New Zealand not even allowing their own citizens to return to their home country?
Either way, as rich as he is; allowing a sick child to enter any country for emergency medical treatment is always the right thing to do in my books.
The whole point of the covid restrictions is to save lives, and they could very well have just save his son's life for all we know.
I am sure that the medevac paramedics and the hospital he was treated in took all of the right precautions to prevent him from spreading covid in New Zealand.
I hope his son is better now.
Only the rich ones, same for Australia. At least NZ is still letting people leave the country. The behaviour of both countries during this has put them near the bottom of the list for places I'd ever want to go to.
The booking system is flawed in a way that scalpers have already dominated supply and are selling slots for thousands of dollars, reinforcing that NZ is becoming increasingly unaffordable for typical people.
More information including petition to overhaul the booking system can be found here: https://www.groundedkiwis.com/
I believe there was plenty of time to fly home before the MIQ was put in place. (I was told about MIQ when I went to vote). However, yeah, I've never seen open spots on the MIQ.
In Canada we are allowed to quarantine in our own homes, and the government checks up on you and fines you for leaving within 14 days afaik.
I hope you get home to your family soon.
(The measure is in effect late Feb to early Aug 2021)
I wish we had been stricter with international travel so that we could have had less restrictions at home.
You can't drive over the border, but you can fly? Makes 0 sense.
No I don't think so. All citizens can return home. Believe the issue is booking over booked quarantine facilities for arrival
Rich enough? You can go home. Poor? Yeah, sucks to be you.
Not to suggest that it’s not seriously advantageous to have eliminated the frustrations/anxieties that you can purchase your way out of.
My daily anxieties are "I need to find time to make dinner/shop.", "I need to fit in a run into this crazy day.", "Do I have enough money for retirement?", "My co-workers are stressing me out.", "Can I get this project done on time?"
I literally can't think of a common daily anxiety or frustration that would not just evaporate if I was a retired multi-billionaire.
But they’re not. They’re hiding from a pandemic in Fiji and buying their way into quarantined nations that aren’t even letting their own citizens in.
Let me know the next time Page or Schmidt has to worry whether they’ll ever be destitute due to an injury or accident out of their control.
My own anxieties have largely to do with my children, and while some can probably be bought away (is my kid getting an OK education at this public school?), there isn't an amount of money to instantly solve "my kid is sick".
I agree on the whole with the sentiment that the situations of the super rich are not comparable to ours, but there are some things that money won't solve, and likely some problems that you and I cannot conceive of that money creates.
This is the comment I was responding to. Sick children are not a daily frustration and, even then, Page can pay for the best health care available anywhere in the world for his child, many others have to decide between keeping their house to medical treatment.
Have you ever been poor? I have. I’ve also made fairly exorbitant amounts of money in a year later in my career. Money does not fix problems, but it absolutely removes a great deal of inconvenience, trouble, and stress from life.
The working poor who are otherwise trapped in a web of debt and crushing hours with low pay are much closer to the average worker - tech or otherwise - making several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, than that worker is to someone like Page.
But folks often don’t realize this. The fickle trappings of the “middle-class” create a false rug of comfort that can be readily yanked out from underneath someone given an injury or illness.
This is not a worry billionaires have. Nor most millionaires. But many Americans do have it.
Money doesn’t break you out of the human condition, but it absolutely changes life radically.
Which is fine, I’m happy to let the rich do what they will. As soon as we no longer have citizens bankrupted by medical or educational debt, or have their retirements wiped out by an injury or illness. Once citizens can rest easier, then they can have their absurd displays of wealth. Until then, they are begging awfully hard for violent revolution.
And this is all coming from someone who is deeply satisfied with life and essentially always has been! That’s the trouble with the human condition.
Is this a defense of allowing uncapped accumulation of wealth? No. Is it a defense of the ultrarich being able to do whatever they want? No. It’s the simple observation that while money buys solutions to many conditions, “the human condition” is not one of them.
Other people who have come upon sudden riches have expressed the same sentiment. There was a great post on reddit years ago from a guy in wealth management who talked about the severe lack of "human experience" when you achieve maximum wealth.
> The economic anarchy of capitalist society as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of the evil.
This quote from Einstein always comes to mind when I hear of people that get a lot of "success" with money but then feel empty as a result. I feel like it has to be, at least in part, a knowledge that they aren't giving back what they know they should be for the amount they are taking, but you can't really blame them too much because it's what everyone is "supposed" to do :/
If he chose not to, and he feels empty, thats on him. He probably is empty.
William Gibson, Count Zero (1986)
The super-rich aren't gods, they just have something people want. However rich Bezos was, his junk is still on the internet for anyone to go see, so money really can't solve everything.
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/mar/21/satire-...
Once you get a decent salary utity of money decreases badly.
Choose your poison.
You're just presenting the other side of "arguably". Thanks, but unnecessary.
Your little snipe was arguably unnecessary.
So what if "many people" believe X, Y, or Z. Who cares?
NZ decided on a course of action. They implemented it. They arguably saved tens of thousands of lives. That's the truth.
Their government was presumably elected democratically, so what more is there to say?
The OP said he felt bad for NZ'ers. I don't, and I said why.
What more would you like?
Best option for whom? It is entirely possible that the child wasn't especially sick and could have been treated in Fiji, but paranoid billionaire parents didn't believe that Fijian medical care was good enough.
The fact is we don't know and likely never well. I have no doubt though that billionaires are given privileges that are supposedly not for sale.
“The day after the application was received, a New Zealand air ambulance staffed by a New Zealand ICU nurse-escort medevaced the child and an adult family member from Fiji to New Zealand,” https://apnews.com/article/technology-lifestyle-travel-new-z...
Nothing to see here AFAICT.
Is the healthcare system in New Zealand better than the states?
EDIT : wrong year!
https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/industry/tourism-and-trans...
borders open, ~8K arrivals. 1h flight time difference between Auckland and Sydney.
May I know what the significance of January 2020 is? Isn't that before Australia closed their borders?
>the billionaire and one of his children were granted access to New Zealand in January
And second, apart from living in the middle of Siberia [1] or in the Amazon jungle with literally no contact with anyone, believing that you won't get Covid in Fiji because it's more isolated is just a wrong premise. Unless they are airlifted all your supplies get, well, supplied to you via direct human contact, no matter how much you try just one small slip/moment of not paying attention can make the difference between being infected and not being infected. And if you do get infected it's better to be located close to a hospital, not literally on an island in the middle of the Pacific.
Just bad decisions all around.
[1] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-rus...
Most western countries have better healthcare system than the US, New Zealand included.
- US comes in last in health care rankings of high-income countries - https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/04/health/us-health-care-ran...
- Health Care in the U.S. Compared to Other High-Income Countries - https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2...
Had a colleague whose wife worked at a Swedish hospital and she had patients from all over the world, not because the Swedish health system or even that hospital was particularly fantastic, but because she was one of the top people in the world in this one very niche thing.
Now, out of all developed countries, why did you mention Japan? IIRC, Japan produces little medical research compared to the UK or even Germany.
US scores poorly in those due to high sticker prices; the quality available for those who can afford is the best in US; both for specialist rare cases and for mundane cases.
I only doubt you a little, but in order to make this discussion as truthful as possible, you mind adding some sources to your strong claims?
If you're 'poor'. If you're rich it's an entirely different situation. And I think it's fair to classify Larry Page as rich.
The average US HN user has better care than the average HN user from elsewhere because we gainfully employed techs have decent insurance.
I am now in Israel, where I had much better outcomes than when I was in the US (with excellent insurance). Anecdotal, but I know many stories of Israelis who moved back to Israel with first diagnosis of a serious disease despite a good insurance - mostly because they were aware of horror stories of people losing their insurance at some point and going bankrupt (COBRA is damn expensive, and only lasts 18 month at its longest).
Granted, their experience predates Obamacare - it might be different now.
I have had far worse experiences in Canada than in the US.
Israel has an excellent, though very unpleasant, free public system; and also a parallel private system that’s as expensive as the US (but that has a very distinct use profile because of the existence of the public system).
You’ll almost always get to see an ER doctor within a couple of hours in the public system, and a junior specialist for a non-emergency within a couple of weeks, but if you want the real expert specialist, you’ll wait 6 months in the public system, or 2 weeks if you go private.
Time constants from the center / Tel Aviv area. I heard they are worse the farther away you are - but then, 90% of the population is within a 2 hour drive of Tel Aviv, and the rest are less than 4 hours drive or 40 minute flight.
I don't how you post that so comfortably and without qualification.
If you look at any of the research, the US has effectively the same survival rate of an emergency admission or elective surgery as the rest of the world (within a small margin).
This doesn't even control other items such as age, violence, body weight, pre-existing conditions, etc etc. Arguably the U.S. has a bigger issue with weight, which would indicate the U.S. healthcare system may be slightly more robust.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but I'd avoid diving into political leaning pundits -- common wealth fund and CNN are both political pundits. Looking at the raw data it is not as clear.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4515980/
Even this is political, but it's more clear: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality...
U.S. does a lot better in some areas, worse in others. But if you control for weight it's going to be better.
Canadian here. The AVERAGE Canadian's health care is MUCH better than the average American's.
But the best hospitals and the best healthcare in the world is in the US ... if you can afford it. Most of our multi-millionaires and billionaires go to the US for anything critical.
An amazingly high portion of Canadians don't have a family doctor (<https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/despite-more-doctors-many-cana...>). In Atlantic Canada the shortage is astounding (<https://www.thetelegram.com/in-depth/doctor-shortage/what-we...>). It's one thing to have shortages in rural areas—that also happens in the US—but Halifax?!? I've heard the same occurs in Vancouver too.
>But the best hospitals and the best healthcare in the world is in the US ... if you can afford it.
91% of Americans have health insurance, compared to 95-97% for Canada and every other developed country. There are always people who fall into cracks, such as the Canadian who neglects to sign up for a new provincial health care card after moving. The only way to have true 100% coverage is to do what the UK does and not require any card or ID at point of delivery.
>Most of our multi-millionaires and billionaires go to the US for anything critical.
Politicians too, such as Jean Chretien, who twice visited the Mayo Clinic while Prime Minister, disguising the visits as "ski vacations" (<https://web.archive.org/web/20160624132234/http://www.ezrale...>).
I sometime think that the life of someone like Page must be so irredeemably boring. What else do you have left when literally anything you can think of is just a negligible-bank-transfer-whatever-the-sum away?
Together, Google and Facebook control an enormous percent of all information distribution. They make a show as being a neutral platform, only responding to the preferences of the user, but that is more and more obviously not true. I am not a republican, but I think their fear of getting cut off the internet is legit, because if you're not on the internet, your're out of the conversation.