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Comment by larrysalibra | Hacker News Reader

As a former American who lived abroad for about 11 years before renouncing, “cartoonishly cruel” is a pretty accurate description of the system. It’s even worse an American entrepreneur abroad because that makes things even more complicated.

I gave up jumping through the hoops in 2018 and the self-torture and renounced. I shared my story in case anyone is interested: https://larrysalibra.com/goodbye-usa/

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I feel for you. My grandparents were apart of the Italian diaspora too, but they ended up in Canada. I often thought how difficult it would be if I had to choose because both countries are close to my heart. I’ve seen a number of American friends that are also duel citizens have to deal with the stress and unfairness that you have. I just feel really lucky and privileged that I don’t have to be in the position to choose even though I no longer live in Canada or Italy.

This was a good read. It's interesting that you decided to stay in HK after the protests/hostile takeover in 2020. My partner and friends all left HK for the UK, Australia, and Canada.

Thanks for reading!

The stay versus go debate in HK is always very interesting and one that has been going on for decades and will no doubt continue for many people.

What's the tipping point for you? (Or possible lines in the sand?)

I think it reached a point of no return. HK is still a very special place, but I see a lot of expats leaving for Singapore and Hkers leaving for overseas(BNO visa).

Singapore is more stable, but has even less freedoms than HK though.

Depending on how bad it turns out I could see a wave of HK emigration to the UK.

Similar how a lot of Asians living in Africa (Uganda Kenya etc.) did in the 1970's, Without the ethnic cleansing aspect.

This is already happening: https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-nati...

My friend moved on that visa this week. Before Hong Kongers could get a BNO passport and it wasn’t particularly useful. The British government changed the conditions a year ago, and now it’s an open residence permit with a direct path to full citizenship.

There are at least a million people eligible for a BNO passport.

> Singapore is more stable, but has even less freedoms than HK though

And it’s getting worse every day. I.e. recently they allowed “social distance enforcement officers” to get into your house to check that you’re not breaking any rules (for instance not having a party with more people than allowed by current regulations). No warrant needed. Non-compliance penalized by up to $10000 and/or jail time.

> By funding and participating in the system, we give the system legitimacy and only make the system stronger and the problems worse. Exiting is the high leverage and most effective option.

Very interesting indeed.

This is a really interesting read. I'm not a US citizen (AU & NZ) and don't face the same problems when being overseas, but I definitely relate to it not really feeling like home now that I've been away for several years.

Thankfully, it's not as hard to not pay AU/NZ taxes, it's still a little bit painful to prove you're not living there, but not even in the same league as the US.

Have you ever wondered if it weren't HK - where your exit country would be? Did Italy or any other place in the EU appeal to you at all? I hold dual US-UK, which means the EU isn't really an option for me anymore.

I think about it time to time. But haven’t come to any conclusions. Some things about Italy are great - the geography and people. And compared to the USA they treat me very well as an Italian abroad - they proactively send me a ballot to vote every year and even give overseas Italians our own representatives in the legislature.

I’ve certainly liked visiting a number of places in the EU - it might be fun to try to live there.

I sort of wish I did this when I was younger. But I have kids, family, and extended family (on both sides) all in California. It makes it difficult to leave the state much less the country.

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