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Comment by exogeny | Hacker News Reader

I forget the name of the company, but many of the concessions at terminals in US airports are basically monopolies controlled by one company. They go a long way in obfuscating it through iPads, authentic-sounding fronts (ie: the Biergarten in this example), and partnerships with celebrity chefs like Wolfgang Puck who are willing to whore their name. But in the end everything goes back to a common commissary kitchen, where they serve up cafeteria food.

It's ridiculous, and part of the reason why almost all US airports are awful, Kafka-esque centers of frustration and disappointment.

Edit: The company is OTG. They're basically what Aramark is to sporting arenas, except to airports. Get a monopoly for the captives, drive up prices, and serve up garbage.

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You’re probably thinking of OTG, the offender in the article linked.

I disagree with your assessment of their quality. As someone that used to spend a majority of the year traveling in the pre-COVID world, OTG takeovers have only improved the quality of food and drinks that are available in the airports they have won contracts in. Yes, they have some establishments that aren’t great, but I still prefer their attempt to be somewhat more appealing than Subway/Burger King/Dunkin Donuts/whatever other garbage tier food option used to be in the same spot OTG took over.

Their prices are stupidly expensive, but for business travelers with expense accounts…it doesn’t matter.

Not sure why this is being downvoted. As a guy that travels 200k miles a year you have hit the nail on the head.

I don't think you're travelling. At 200k miles a year, your home is the airplane. Whatever you do outside of that is your travel.

I see that you disagree. As someone who's done 100k miles in a year, at 200k miles you're basically travelling every other day. 100k miles is hard on your body.

I did some quick math and that’s about 36 weeks of round trip NY to LA. Is that really so hard to believe? My understanding is that there are jobs that are essential all travel (call it 48 weeks a year).

You're basically just getting over the jet-lag when you have to leave again. It's not hard to believe, it's just very hard on your body. I've done a trip that was West Coast to South Korea for 5 days, then to South Africa for 6 days, then New York for 3 days, and back to the West Coast. Took 2 weeks to feel right again, and I was in my 20s.

That is roughly 550 miles per day, every day, 365 days a year. That is a lot, did you mean 20k miles? What kind of work do you do?

(Not the parent, but) 200K miles/year is roughly a monthly New York to Shenzhen round trip.

United frequent flyer status doesn't start til 25k/year, and top tier is over 100k/year. I don't think it's a typo for 20k.

I hit 50k/year just going back and forth between SFO and YYZ once a month. I'm just a software engineer, with a lot of collaboration between our SF and Waterloo offices.

I'd think of it more like 4000 miles a week, which is roughly a weekly roundtrip cross-country (US) flight. I wouldn't do it, but some people do, and it doesn't seem absurd enough to assume a typo. 20k miles is a quarterly cross-country trip, plus an extra one, which is barely anything if you're considered traveling a lot.

Regular transoceanic air travel, like on the order of once a month, can hit that number.

200k miles a year is very easy to hit for US folks working in the consulting sector, especially if you end up serving clients on the opposite coast. It’s also normal for consultants to rack up unholy amounts of frequent flier points and take lots of nearly-free long haul trips each year.

Source: am consultant. Have hit 200k miles/yr multiple times.

A friend works in sf and runs an eng team out of seattle. He daytrips up there weekly, or at least did pre-covid.

800 miles SFO to SEA, 45 weeks... That's 72k miles alone.

The CO2 footprint of people like that is insane.

Assuming he is flying in economy every time, that individual personally generates 13.84 metric tons of CO2 pollution every year.[0] More than 3 passenger cars' worth.[1] The average yearly carbon footprint for one person in the US is about 16 tons, so he is essentially doubling that just by flying.[2]

Here's hoping that engineering team and others like it are doing something very valuable to the world at large, because it's costing all of us. This example highlights the cost we all pay when companies and teams refuse to adopt remote work for these kinds of cases. I wonder, after a year long remote work experiment will that team go back to requiring a weekly roundtrip flight, or will they change their practices?

[0]https://calculator.carbonfootprint.com/calculator.aspx?tab=3 [1]https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/greenhouse-gas-emissions-t... [2]https://www.nature.org/en-us/get-involved/how-to-help/carbon...

You can take that a step further: it’s actually 22 miles an hour, 24 hours a day. Which when you put it like that feels quite leisurely. You could do that on a boat.

On the other hand when you think of it as spending so much of your life flying that your average speed over a whole year is 22 miles an hour…

It's not that extreme. A colleague flew return between CA and Switzerland every two weeks (13 hrs direct each way). That is ~250,000 miles per year or about 5,000 per week.

I also fly 200k a year (pre-Covid). But it's usually a long-haul trip once or twice every week with a mix of shorter hops; not a 3h flight every day.

Mix of an active travel lifestyle, living in hotels full time, and a lot of work meetings, events, and commitments around the world.

You got downvoted, but I generally agree that it is garbage for the amount that you pay, but remove the price and airport food isn't bad at the ~$30 range.

That's the point though right? OTG prices at the highest point they can, which is likely 50%-65% of a per-diem @ $75/day.

As a non-business traveler though, it's a nightmare for the monopoly, but I'm agreeing w/ the quality part.

Airline food, now that's terrible, even in Premium Economy.

ANA and Thai Airways would claim otherwise.

Singapore Airlines also has mostly edible food.

Thai’s more so like their American peers: decent food on long haul, but in flight food on ‘local’ Asian flights (even longer ones) is abysmal, even in business class.

I would beg to disagree. I've had some really good meals in the pointy end of the plane on Asian flights (JAL, Asiana and Singapore Airlines come to mind), and even in short-haul economy class the stuff eg. Thai dishes out is head and shoulders above the slop you get on (say) trans-Pacific United. I'm the opposite of a picky eater, but I still recall with the horror an attempt at pancake and eggs I was served once for breakfast, only both had long since disintegrated and the dish was covered from end to end in congealed off-white goo that was trying to approximate gravy -- the only time I was physically unable to eat an airplane meal.

Your last line rubs me the wrong way. Prices always matter, especially in business.

Of course it matters. Just not to me, in this case.

My company picking up the tab for my insanely overpriced airport food, hotel bar drinks, and other semi-ridiculous daily purchases is one of the prices they pay to keep me around and living out of a suitcase (during more normal, non-COVID times).

But Shake Shack!

Have a family, we travel. My expense account is my wallet.

If they're so proud of it why do they hide it behind a plethora of different brands? And really, how competent do you have to be to produce normally edible food if you're charging $28 for a beer?

> If they're so proud of it why do they hide it behind a plethora of different brands

Multi-brand strategies are common. Using that as proof that they aren't "proud" and they "hide" is a leap that requires more than just a statement.

Multi brand strategies are specifically made to trick consumers into thinking a product is diverse. They are a really big problem in the US and harm fair competition because it makes markets look more saturated than they are.

That’s only partially accurate (you’re right that it makes markets look more saturated than they are.) A lot of the time it occurs just from simple acquisitions. For instance, InBev has acquired quite a few beer brands, but they don’t consolidate because a lot perform very strongly in their home market, and consolidating them all under a single brand would create far too many skus for any customer to understand, and create confusion.

Yeah, beer producers are the king of collecting brands and forcing them onto shelf space with their other products. Its entire goal is to push out the small competition. Doesn’t matter the quality of your products if it’s the only ones available.

They don’t hide it at all. Their branding is all over everything they run, the iPads they scatter around the terminals, and their grab and go food stores & news stands are literally named OTG/On the Go.

The illusion of choice.

It's real choice. Even if they're all owned by the same company, the burrito place still offers burritos, the burger place still offers burgers, the pizza place still offers pizza, etc.

Offering everything at all the locations would be terrible, because you just can't cram that much into one tiny airport concession kitchen. And offering the same limited menu at all locations would also be terrible, because different people like to eat different things.

Ah, but you're assuming that the choice that matters to the consumer is "what do I want to eat?" as opposed to "how many companies operate concessions in my local airport?"

and they all serve $28 beer

I'm sure companies like OTG are responsible for a large part of that $28. But, I would like to see what the airport charges them for rent. And if that was adjusted at all during the travel lull of COVID. I suspect a fair amount of the problem is the airports charging outrageous rents (and/or other fees).

HMS is worse than OTG. I would avoid HMS as much as possible due to consistent poor quality. I also don't care about cost due to expense account, except when traveling for pleasure.

once I got terrible service at an airport Starbucks. I used the URL on the receipt to report my negative experience to HMS, AND ALSO reported it on the Starbucks website. I received a $10 Starbucks gift card from HMS (more than amount of my purchase) and a $20 gift card from Starbucks.

Awful service but at least I feel like I got my money’s worth. Interesting that Starbucks corporate was more generous than HMS. They were both very responsive, fwiw

And for the majority of travelers who are not expense accounted?

The problem is that even pre-COVID, business travelers only accounted for somewhere around 30% of air travelers. Post-COVID, that number is far lower. So stupidly high prices that are affordable to business travelers with expense accounts are not even remotely affordable for the vast majority of travelers.

Sometimes those per diems are flat rate & direct paid, so whatever you don’t spend, you get to pocket yourself.

And if limited per day, spending less at the airport can mean spending more elsewhere.

(Non-USian) Does the IRS treat these expenses as taxable benefits? Even Paying 30% tax eats into a $27 meh meal vs packing your own.

Per diem reimbursements are not taxable income, neither are direct reimbursements for business expenses (including michelin-starred dinners).

Not always true (in the US). Per diem and other travel expenses are not taxable for up to 1 year spent traveling away from the employee’s home, though that ‘year’ doesn’t necessarily have to be consecutive time spent away, and there are a variety of complications that influence when the taxation would kick in (e.g. when was the project known to be over 12 months in duration? When does the employee spend over 50% of their time in a location other than ‘home’ for business purposes? and many other nuances).

The joys of the US tax code -_-

Business travelers, whatever their head share may be, still responsible for 90% of spending in airports. Either market or Soviet cafeteria, you know

If I'm not flying for business, I'm intentionally not spending money in the airport as much as possible. I'd rather time my travels to get a decent meal for a good price before I get to the airport.

We used to do actuals for business trip expenses. It was very obnoxious having to justify every dollar you spent and needing the receipts to back them up. Forget to grab a receipt for a gas station coffee and sandwich and the admin assistant just assumes you were buying cigarettes and a 40oz. Whatever money the company was saving on paying actual expenses, I'm sure they were paying more for approving complicated expense reports. Now, we get per diem and there's no annoying oversight into how you spend your money and what on.

Worked for a gov environment that required receipts for everything. Take public transit and you better search out a paper chit for the $3, but drive your car and they’ll accept any mileage at 50c/km.

Was more about checking boxes than anything else.

Was funny when you have a dinner with 7 people and end up with 14 receipts because we can’t expense alcohol.

> I still prefer their attempt to be somewhat more appealing than Subway/Burger King/Dunkin Donuts/whatever other garbage tier food option used to be in the same spot

In my experience Subway has a 100% hit rate of being better than a $26 airport hash brown, egg and bacon muffin, and small coffee.

As someone who has been to Britain airport (and hopes not to return), I am offended. Best sandwich I've ever eaten.

I don’t understand what you are saying, does Britain have the best or worst sandwich?

Which Britain airport?

I think they're saying that the best sandwich they ever had was in an airport in Britain that was not managed by a company like the one described earlier in the thread.

EDIT: after rereading GP's comment, I think they're saying that the airport _was_ managed by such a company, and they loved the food from it (as opposed to Subway etc.)

I recall some very decent by airport standards Japanese inspired food in Singapore's airport.

Fast food chains are normally the way to go for minimizing the downside risk though.

Singapore's airport is ridiculous (I mean that in a good way). They have a movie theater. They have a swimming pool with pool side bar. A ton of other random a attractions

https://www.changiairport.com/en/discover/attractions.html#/...

And good food choices, over 150 of them.

https://www.changiairport.com/en/dine/dining-directory.html#...

True, but is that tuna sandwich really tuna?

If it tastes good I couldn't care less what it's made of.

> but I still prefer their attempt to be somewhat more appealing than Subway/Burger King/Dunkin Donuts/whatever other garbage tier food option used to be in the same spot OTG took over.

Don't the also operate franchises like those, too? It's been a long time since I've flown, but I think my local airport has well-known franchises, "local" restaurants, and probably some generic ones, all operated by the same company (which is clear from the receipts).

I might disagree with the notion that Subway/Burger King/Dunkin Donuts is garbage tier. Obviously it isn't the healthiest food, but the minimum quality standards mean something for those big brands. At least consumers can be confident that what comes out of their local Subway/Burger King/Dunkin Donuts will also come out of the same in an airport.

The only airport I've been to in the US that doesn't appear entirely beholden to this dynamic, or one very similar to it, is PDX. Portland International seems to have several eateries and establishments which are representative of some of the more popular local "name brand" establishments, e.g. Stumptown, Country Cat, Kenny & Zukes, etc. As a result, it's one of the only airports I don't dread eating at when I'm coming & going.

Off the top of my head SFO and MSP also have locally themed establishments, but ran by a single concessionaire.

Austin's airport does this as well, a lot of local joints. And the Southern Terminal even has a food truck.

MSP (Minneapolis) does this too. Local brands have spots.

The folks running the airport actually manage selecting the establishments to make sure there is a variety of price points, types of places, and etc.

Run by the company this article is about, using local brands as clothing.

https://www.otgexp.com/experiences/featured-experience?loc=2...

I wonder why the difference. Prices at MSP are certainly marked 'up' but nothing like the story.

I wonder what 'run by' really entails.

(I live in the Twin Cities, so MSP is my airport.) The linked article only mentions Concourse G. Most of the local-style restaurants I can think of off the top of my head (e.g. Surdyk's, Angel Food) are in the main hall or Concourse C area. So I guess OTG probably does some of that, but does not own all of the "local" restaurants in the airport. In fact, the presence of the other local restaurants may have encouraged OTG to contract with local restaurants to fit in and seem more local. Just spitballing.

SEA is the US airport I've been through most frequently, and I don't recall it being dreadful for food. Largely fast food style stuff, but there were multiple different options. Note - this is the international terminal, the domestic one could well be awful.

SEA came to mind for me as well. The domestic terminal offers local options such as Beecher’s, Caffe Ladro, Grand Central Bakery, Salt & Straw, Skillet, and Starbucks.

Is it true they no longer have an Ivar’s?

Yeah: https://mynorthwest.com/900612/ivars-leaving-seatac-airport

Ivars lost their lease and left in 2018. Anthony’s seafood is also gone.

I think there might be an Ivars kiosk.

These are often operated by companies like HMS or OTG and simply license the brand from local businesses. In my opinion they rarely recreate the experience of the real establishment.

I know it's technically accurate, but the description of Starbucks as a "local option" is extremely amusing.

Technically correct is the best kind of correct.

Skillet in terminal N is operated by HMS. I know because I gave feedback and they respond.

Side note: the amazing Salt and Straw is from Portland.

Salt & Straw is a Portland company AFAIK.

MSY really focused on displaying local food offerings when it opened the new terminal (2019)

It also did prior to the new terminal, but the old terminal was built so long ago that it was setup without security in mind. All the good restaurants were outside of security.

A lot of the same restaurants are in the new terminal, but they're now past security.

Phoenix airport is this way as well. Some of the restaurants that locals are proud of have locations in the airport. It's pretty cool!

That's not an accident.

> Our promise to “street pricing” means things cost the same here as in town.

https://www.portofportland.com/about/pdx

Tampa's airport is basically entirely local options after a revamp a few years ago.

Yes, one of the things PDX does so well! At other airports I pretty much only go to McDonald's because its prices are typically the only ones that aren't crazy. At PDX though you can get fine, local food for a fair price

My favorite US airport for food outlets is Austin. Nothing beats getting Salt Lick before your flight!

Noticed the same thing on the local Helsinki Airport. Most of the restaurants are actually operated by either HMShost[1] or SSP[2]. Seems to be part of the business model that they partner with global and local brands.

[1] https://www.foodtravelexperts.com/international/ [2] https://hmshost.international/

After being stuck in LHR for 40 hours due to alleged equipment isses, my layover in HEL was a huge breath of fresh air. Tons of personality for an airport. Made me want to go back and visit Finland sometime.

My life changed so much for the better once I got lounge access.

Unlimited free food and beverages (restaurant quality at The Centurion), free WiFi to do some work, and a clean relaxing space to decompress a bit or even shower before a flight.

Will never pay $18 for a mediocre airport sandwich again.

I’m very much looking forward to the Centurion Lounge ending their ‘2 free guests’ admission policy next year. They’re fantastic lounges when they aren’t horrifically overcrowded and have screaming kids running around, which seemed to increasingly be the norm up until COVID hit.

By 2018 or so, I often began avoiding the Centurion in favor of Delta lounges just to have some space to myself.

Lol, we have a saying where I work:

The only thing better than executive platinum status is not having to get on another f#cking airplane.

Yea the current Amex Platinum annual fee is insane but the lounge access you get on that card is pretty amazing. It really is worth it if you travel a lot.

$700/year for a metal coupon book is starting to push it, and the Centurion lounges are nice but not that nice.

Yeah, the current fee ($695) is a bit eye popping.

But I am actually using every penny of the airline, Uber and Equinox credits ($200 + $200 + $300) so it’s effectively free for me and all the extra benefits like lounge access are icing on the cake.

Airline club lounges are a racket of their own. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Haha, it's been a long time since I've found a Centurion lounge relaxing.

Lounge access is only good when it's not full of people who just pay for a credit card. I'm quite fond of the Cathay, Swiss, and Lufthansa first class lounges. Centurions have gone completely down-hill since the Platinum got popular.

"almost all US airports are awful, Kafka-esque centers of frustration and disappointment."

Haven't been to the US, but the same applies to most European airports. Silly shops, silly layouts,etc. Heck, a few weeks ago I departed from a midsize airport that recently benefitted from billions of investment. Rest assure the money didn't go to make the whole process a bit easier for passengers and we all still had to stand in a crowded corridor and then on the stairs with no aircon except a big fan hanging off the ceiling.

Airports in the EU and Asia all force you to walk through vast duty free sections before you get to cramped sitting areas all crammed together.

OTG is much, much smaller than HMS Host. If they appear to be in all airports, it's probably just because you happen to go the airports where they operate. A list is on their site: https://www.otgexp.com Once you're out of the East Coast, you will not encounter OTG.

Most likely HMS Host. All your airport receipts will say that, once you start looking.

HMS host doesn’t do the upscale appearance and iPad thing. They tend to stick to low end franchise operations and news stands.

Does anyone know of an article on how/why this happens?

The airport is the most interesting situation because it's the most unavoidable monopoly.

If you have really bad food, it might be bad enough that I decide it's not worth going to the stadium - this is theoretically bad for the stadium.

I doubt many people are going to not fly because the food in the airport sucks. They'll just pack snacks. The airport doesn't really care.

The question is why was a single company granted the contract for all food in a given airport? Why not have multiple providers? A monopoly like this smells like corruption to me.

Why not have multiple providers?

Why would the airport want to deal with a dozen small providers, a third of which will no doubt drop out on any given year? Far easier to hand it off to one provider, let them deal with everything, and focus their energy on more important parts of their business.

Also in many places one company will own or operate several airports. I'd assume having the same company provide restaurant services across all their airports just makes life easier.

They've also got a captive audience, almost none of whom are going to go out of the airport to go to a competitor because they'd have to suffer through the traffic, parking, and security lines to get back in.

It's a similar thing with ski resorts, skating rinks, bowling alleys, etc.. all of whom tend to charge exorbitant prices for mediocre food, or worse.

Wow — before I finished reading your post, I said to myself, "it must be Aramark". I am surprised it is a different company, but not surprised that it's similar.

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